Brexit mega thread part 12: David Cameron: Return of the King

[SerendipityJane]

(previous thread)

That's "king" as a suffix not a prefix. Also part of a phrase.

My aching sides
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13018467/Another-blow-Rishi-Sunak-study-shows-2-3m-British-expats-getting-vote-time-election-plan-punish-Tories-Brexit.html

Although they'd be wasting their time voting for Labour ("Make Brexit Work", no rejoining EU, single market or customs union)

>wasting their time voting for Labour

If the object is to punish the tories why would they be wasting their time? Voting for the party most likely to defeat the Tories is the only way to punish them.

True.

Won't change anything, though.

>Won't change anything, though
Voting tory is the only thing that guarantees no change.

Never forget - Truss, Kwarteng, Hunt, Hancock, Frost, Rees Smugg, May and even Cameron and the ERG are still there.

And Labour also has its factions, including committed Lexiteers. Plus they are terrified of losing votes in important constituencies to Reform

All the polling analysis shows that people who are likely to vote Reform were never likely to vote Labour.

Which is why the Rwanda scheme is so utterly brilliant. All it will do is redistribute the same overall number of votes between Tories and Reform. It is hardly going to pull a Labour voter into voting Tory.

Reform is targeting those who voted Tory in the last election, and had previously voted Labour, in Red Wall seats.

Which will probably enable Labour to win. And is one of the main factors behind Labour's sticking with Brexit.

@Peregrina The real argument should be that a vote for a major change should require a super majority. At least that way you would know it was genuinely the will of the people, or at least those who bothered to vote.

The 2016 referendum was held in accordance with the 2015 EU referendum act. It did not specify a super majority.

>And Labour also has its factions
Which is not an argument against voting labour.

A vote for the Tories guarantees no change. The lunatics have not even been evicted from the bridge let alone from the ship.

@Chersfrozenface

SerendipityJane · Today 12:28

My aching sides
^www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13018467/Another-blow-Rishi-Sunak-study-shows-2-3m-British-expats-getting-vote-time-election-plan-punish-Tories-Brexit.html^
Although they'd be wasting their time voting for Labour ("Make Brexit Work", no rejoining EU, single market or customs union

Exactly. So, why are SerendiityJane's sides aching?

Brilliantly ignorant of the word 'should' in @Peregrina post.

@Chersfrozenface Reform is targeting those who voted Tory in the last election, and had previously voted Labour, in Red Wall seats.

Which will probably enable Labour to win. And is one of the main factors behind Labour's sticking with Brexit.

Exactly again.

It amazing that some think if the Tories lose the next GE, Brexit will be overturned with immediate effect.

Which is not an argument against voting labour.

I never said it was.

Just don't expect any actual change when Labour gets in

@Jason118 Brilliantly ignorant of the word 'should' in Peringrina post.

What people think (retrospectively) "should" have happened in the past will never change what actually happened in the past. Just continuous attempts by remain to argue that Brexist should be overturned and the EU should reinstate UK's membeship as though nothing ever happened.

Nobody is expecting Labour to undo Brexit, they have made clear they won't. They do want to establish closer ties with the EU which is a small step in the right direction.

At least Starmer spoke with the Greek PM rather than throwing a hissy fit over marbles.

@Chersfrozenface Just don't expect any actual change when Labour gets in

I don't expect any change at all if Labour wins. Their script for the 5 years after the GE will be:

We opposed Brexit and wanted a second referendum.

What we inherited fromt he Tories is not out fault.

Tax increases are essential to make up for Tories austerity measures (which were needed due to Labour's spending between 1997 and 2010, but let's hope people don't remember that).

Etc.

The 2016 referendum was held in accordance with the 2015 EU referendum act. It did not specify a super majority.

My oh my. You are a beggar for finding things out!

@DuncinToffee

Nobody is expecting Labour to undo Brexit, they have made clear they won't.

Why is that?

Surely, if UK's departure from the EU is the root of all UK's problems and is certain to reduce GDP by 4% by 2035, as expressed on these threads, it would make sense to reverse Brexit immediately?

They do want to establish closer ties with the EU which is a small step in the right direction.

That's just a code for - we aim to rejoin the EU in the future.

Why is that?

Do you really think it is as simple as reversing Brexit immediately?

That's just a code for - we aim to rejoin the EU in the future

Fine with me

I think that it’s a long time since anyone on these threads thought that Brexit would be reversed anytime soon, and almost never by Labour.
My own feeling is that it might under a future (distant future) Conservative or neo-Conservative government looking for economic advantage.

@DuncinToffee At least Starmer spoke with the Greek PM rather than throwing a hissy fit over marbles.

Greece fudged their way into the EU. Take a look at:

Greece Admits Faking Data to Join Europe - The New York Times (nytimes.com)

Subsequent to joining the EU, Greece received several bail outs which were financed by the EU members who were net contributors at the time.

The EU has a mechanism to join, but not to expel if it is later discovered that a member was guilty of misrepresentation when they applied to become a member.

More fool them.

More fool them.

Why does that bother you? We are not in the EU.

Maybe the South Korean Government has made some stupid decisions. Would that upset you too?

@DuncinToffee

That's just a code for - we aim to rejoin the EU in the future

Fine with me

So, Labour are lying in the short term for the purpose of a GE when they say will not reverse Brexit?

@borntobequiet My own feeling is that it might under a future (distant future) Conservative or neo-Conservative government looking for economic advantage.

A very long time away, if at all. I think the EU will break up over time as Germany tires of propping up weaker members.

Eastern European members may be tempted to join up with the USSR

Greece joined the EU in 1981, that article is about them joining the European Currency Union.