Brexit mega thread part 12: David Cameron: Return of the King

[SerendipityJane]

(previous thread)

That's "king" as a suffix not a prefix. Also part of a phrase.

So, the EU is going to withdraw Article 50? Not a very democratic union if the rule is:

No where have I said that. You have jumped to a conclusion to make a point of your own
Once you join the EU, you can never leave the EU.
which is nonsense, because we have left. Something which appears to have escaped you.

More agreement then that manifestos are worthless.

You really haven't learned from all the large language thrown at you have you ?

@Peregrina

So, explain the comment that EU will not re-admit the UK until Brexiters are seen off. That sounds very like:

EU will only consider an application from the UK if the UK agrees not to trigger Article 50 at a later date.

If the EU did not want members to have the option to leave, why did they spend seven years from 2002 to 2009 developing Article 50?

@SerendipityJane More agreement then that manifestos are worthless.

Has any Government delivered all what they said in their manifestos? Doing well to get three out of ten as per the Nottingham episode of Question Time in 2019.

Also, when manifestos are prepared by any of the Parties, they are unable to forecast the future with certainty. Hence, there is always the possibility that unforseeable events prevent manifesto committments from being implemented.

COVID outbreak in 2020 and wars from 2022 to date are good examples.

wars from 2022 to date are good examples.

Not a good example. Astute observers knew what the Russians were doing in Crimea in 2014.

COVID outbreak in 2020 and wars from 2022 to date are good examples.

They are. But not in the way you might think, However I'll go round the circle to meet you again ... to remember that one argument against leaving the EU was the way it would remove some protection the UK had against "event's dear boy, events". Not in and of themselves compelling reasons not to leave. But certainly something to consider.

"Nonsense !" said the Brexiteer brigade "What could possible happen that could affect Brexit ?" (once again proving low intelligence is a feature of no imagination. Or is it vice-versa ?).

So, no - Brexiteers don't get a free pass with the idea that unforeseen events are to blame. They can fuck off with COVID and Ukraine - both events that I have made plans for in 2014 when I was writing business continuity policies which openly had a line for "alien invasion".

Anyone who wasn't putting "eastern Europe stability" in strategy planning in 2014 was living in another dimension. Or looking up their own arse. Hard to tell with Brexiteers at times.

I was working for an insurer at the time, and all sorts of work was going on around travel and airline insurance. Especially after Malay flight 17 was downed. Actuaries tweaked their tables ...

@Peregrina Not a good example. Astute observers knew what the Russians were doing in Crimea in 2014.

Russia/Ukraine are not the only wars since 2022.

@SerendipityJane "event's dear boy, events".

I have seen that comment several times, but I can't work out how it makes it possible to forecast the future with certainty.

"Nonsense !" said the Brexiteer brigade "What could possible happen that could affect Brexit ?"

Link required to prove this statement.

They can fuck off with COVID and Ukraine - both events that I have made plans for in 2014..

So, in 2014, you knew COVID would appear? Maybe you should channel your ability to know the future with certainty towards the stock market. You would soon become rich and not need to psot on MN if you always know when to buy and sell shares.

Russia/Ukraine are not the only wars since 2022.

I( I were a betting person, I would happily bet that you only know that now because you were challenged on it and have now had a quick google.

So, in 2014, you knew COVID would appear?

It was known that a pandemic was overdue; therefore some basic provision could and should have been made.

Operation Cygnus was carried out in 2016, shame resources were diverted to a no deal brexit.

Ah, back to the non-sequiturs are you?

We were talking about how our democracy can decide whether or not to join a trading group. As you yourself managed to accidentally point out, we have a representative democracy where a referendum in not required. So frankly, whatever it said on that leaflet is yesterday's toilet paper in this regard. Or are you having trouble coming up with yet more nonsensical arguments in order to try and derail the thread?

To spell it out - Bad Enoch had taken us into CPTPP gasp without a referendum on whether or not we wanted to! Why aren't you screaming at the government for this grotesque betrayal? We don't want to be in any trading blocs - we've already voted on that, and referendums last forever (in your tiny mind, anyway).

@Peregrina I( I were a betting person, I would happily bet that you only know that now because you were challenged on it and have now had a quick google.

Good that you are not a betting person, as you would have lost. The comment was:

wars from 2022 to date are good examples.

Take note of the use of the plural, wars. ie there was more than one since 2022

It was known that a pandemic was overdue; therefore some basic provision could and should have been made

Refer to link

Statistics Say Large Pandemics Are More Likely Than We Thought (duke.edu)

Such pandemics are likely to occur once every 400 years. However, which of the 400 years it may be cannot be known. It could after 1 year or after 400 years.

A nuclear reactor has a chance of explosion between 100,000 and 1 billion per year, but again which year it will be cannot be known. They may explode as soon as they are activated or 1 billion years later

@DuncinToffee Operation Cygnus was carried out in 2016, shame resources were diverted to a no deal brexit.

No deal became a possibility after the Miller Law was passed in 2017. Gina thought she could use her wealth to thwart Brexit as she did not like the result. The law was that a deal had to be approved by Parliament as opposed to the PM signing as nominated representative.

Labour (other than 5 MPs), LibDems, SNP and Plaid Cymru all voted against T May's deal three times unanimously as they thought Brexit would fade away and never happen.

To this day, I can remember my euphoria when Boris stormed the 2019 general election and the arrogant MPs were humiliated. Gina's face said it all.

"Labour (other than 5 MPs), LibDems, SNP and Plaid Cymru all voted against T May's deal three times unanimously as they thought Brexit would fade away and never happen."

They voted against it because it was a shit deal. It still is, as it's basically the same as we've got at the moment apart from the bit trying to fuck Northern Ireland over.

To this day, I can remember my euphoria when Boris stormed the 2019 general election and the arrogant MPs were humiliated

Yep, that says it all. Liar Johnson, the hero.

It does, doesn't it. Globe's hero is a liar. Makes sense...

@GlobeTrotter2000 given that you think we should have a referendum every time we join a trading bloc, can you please confirm that you are unhappy with the government joining CPTTP without consulting the electorate?

I can't debate with our well travelled millennial. They are clearly incapable of understanding the concept of known unknowns. I imagine their insurance policies are thousands of pages long, as they go into excruciating detail about the ins and outs of how any loss may be caused.

Imagine having a contents policy that only paid out if the thief is a one legged Albanian ex juggler, and having a claim rejected because the thief was a one legged Romanian ex trapeze artist.

Personally I like the idea of insurance that simply covers "loss" without being too worried how it was caused.

When you are working at that level, then the pandemic was a foreseeable event. As was war in Europe.

So we return to my assertion that pandemics and Covid are no excuse for Brexit being the biggest pile of shit since 10,000 elephants were queued up for export to Hyde Park.

I don't even bother reading that person's posts - the rest of you seem to be doing a good job of refuting the points that they think that they are making, so I still get a feel for what current nonsense he or she is propagating

With regard to pandemics, it was well known that the world was "due" a pandemic: there is one on average every 100 years and the last "big" one was the Spanish Flu in 1918 .

Swine Flu and and SARS were warnings (in which we got off lightly) and Operation Cygnus highlighted what we should have been doing in preparation, especially after the Swine Flu and SARS experiences.

But there again, who needs or heeds pesky experts?

Exactly.

Meanwhile, BCP/DR needed a scenario in which none of the offices were accessible and staff had to do whatever they could from dialling in. The grown up reason in the summary was "extreme weather event, etc". However inside the report the "etc" went on to list alien invasion and plague. Which is why I know a fucktonne of people who are paid eye-watering amounts never read the details.

I've been trying to explain to people the risk a major Solar Storm will cause

You say that, but a few weeks ago, I had a server "just stop". The hosting company got to it, and it was "frozen" (which just doesn't happen to Linux)

They had to physically power cycle it.

I put "solar activity" in my weekly report ... on the basis it hasn't happened since, I'm going to take that as a win.

Our local news last night were showing uni medics practising for a zombie attack

Was Global on there?

So in a business continuity/disaster recovery context, what would a zombie apocalypse entail ?

Probably not too dissimilar to a pandemic - avoid contact; treat everyone as potentially contagious; be aware there will be some numbnuts about it ...

I'll double down that lack of intelligence equates to lack of imagination. Prove me wrong.

https://x.com/LBC/status/1770886846060572782?s=20

I was Chair of the Conservative Party when there was one.'
'They've lost the most important attribute: the benefit of the doubt.'

Former Conservative Party Chair Lord Patten tells @AndrewMarr9 the failings of the current government are mostly due to 'the disaster of Brexit'.