Brexit mega thread part 12: David Cameron: Return of the King

[SerendipityJane]

(previous thread)

That's "king" as a suffix not a prefix. Also part of a phrase.

Eastern European members may be tempted to join up with the USSR

Wishful thinking on your behalf.

I am quite sure that the Baltic states are more than happy not to be under the thumb of Russia.

BTW I suggest you get yourself a new Atlas. NI is part of the UK and the USSR has broken up. Neither of which you appear to know.

@Peregrina Why does that bother you? We are not in the EU.

UK was an EU member when Greece was bailed out between 2010 and 2015. Maybe it was one the reasons why some people voted Leave?

In any normal contract, misrepresentation by either party makes the contract null and void. That the EU is prepared to allow a country to remain in the EU after lying their way into the EU and also to bail them out financially is madness.

In response to @Peregrina 's posts about the fact that major constitutional change should require a supermajority as the case in any decent democracy that is used to holding referendums , Alex Salmond tried to table an amendment to the EU Referendum Act to the effect that there needed to be a majority in each of the constituent nations of the EU for Leave to happen.

It was rejected as unrequired because the result of the referendum wasn't necessarily binding

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-68111308

An upland farmer is worried she will go out of business after a loss of income has left the farm "treading water".
Changes to subsidies since the UK left the European Union has seen support for some farms fall by 37%, the National Farmers' Union (NFU) has said.

@GlobeTrotter2000 in what sense did Greece lie its way into the EU back in 1981?

An interesting reaction to the latest EU plans on X from a solidly liberal and
pro-EU commentator in Ian Dunt

Ian Dunt on X: "Holy shit" / X (twitter.com)

How do you interpret his reaction?

The Tories have spent the past fourteen years blaming everything on Labour.

It would be illuminating to know where the people complaining were on the Brexit vote. After six years of insults, I have no fucks to give to stiffed Leavers.

Hungary are about to get their FAFO moment.
Excellent.

@prettybird Alex Salmond tried to table an amendment to the EU Referendum Act to the effect that there needed to be a majority in each of the constituent nations of the EU for Leave to happen.

I think you meant to say "in each of the constituent nations of the UK for Leave to happen"

Not possible as the question on the ballot paper was:

Shall the UK remain in the EU.

That the UK is a micro union of 4 members makes no difference to the EU as it had an agreement with an entity called the United Kingdom.

Plus it could potentially create a situation whereby 395,075 Remain votes in NI (the UK member with the lowest population) would have cancelled 17,400,000 votes to Leave across the entire UK.

It was rejected as unrequired because the result of the referendum wasn't necessarily binding.

The leaflet sent to each UK household stated

This is your decision. The Government will impliment what you decide.

That made it binding beyond any reasonable doubt.

@DuncinToffee Greece joined the EU in 1981, that article is about them joining the European Currency Union.

How does that change the fact they misrepresented their data?

@VimtoVimto The Tories have spent the past fourteen years blaming everything on Labour.

Labour will blame everything on the Tories for a minimum of 5 years if the win the next GE and their tenure lasts for 5 years.

@GlobeTrotter2000

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory/

When joining the EU as you stated?

@DuncinToffee

https://fullfact.org/europe/was-eu-referendum-advisory

Been around this loop before, I suggest you look on the thread "Can someone give me one positive of Brexit". Key points were:

Cameron stated the Government would implement what voters decided.

UK has Approx. 350,000 lawyers. The full fact findings were based on 1,000 UK lawyers (0.2% of the total). Lawyers apply law, but they do not make the law. This is the task of MP's

On 29 March 2017 498 MP's (Approx 76% of the total) voted to trigger Article 50.

@GlobeTrotter2000 so you would only accept that the referendum was advisory if 100% of lawyers said it was? (including those whose specialisms were things like family law, property law etc)?

That's actually hilarious.

Never mind the Supreme Court, Cameron said.....

Great question. I think Ian Dunt is expressing his incredulity there that the EU are prepared, not just to withold funds from Hungary, but to actively intervene to crash the economy of a member state.

An alternative interpretation would be that he was just shocked by Hungary threatening to veto/withold EU monies for Ukraine. I'd hope it was the former but I'm not sure given how much on an EU supporter Dunt usually presents as.

Libertarian leavers are unhappy

https://iea.org.uk/why-brexit-was-a-mistake-from-a-libertarian-perspective/

In retrospect, the libertarian argument supporting Brexit appears to have been fundamentally flawed in its understanding of the European Union’s nature and functions. This misunderstanding has contributed to an increased centralisation of power within the UK and to policies that contradict libertarian principles. These developments highlight the need for a re-evaluation of libertarian views on national sovereignty and international economic cooperation, particularly in a context where state regulation is almost without limits.

I read it as a finally, well done kind of 'holy shit'

Great question. I think Ian Dunt is expressing his incredulity there that the EU are prepared, not just to withold funds from Hungary, but to actively intervene to crash the economy of a member state.

See also: US, UK and Suez

It must be really shit if the people who campaigned for it behind the scenes, and pushed the politicians who backed it, are finally admitting that it's shit!

@pointythings so you would only accept that the referendum was advisory if 100% of lawyers said it was? (including those whose specialisms were things like family law, property law etc)?

The referendum was not advisory as specified on the leaflet sent to each household in the UK. The link is:

why-the-government-believes-that-voting-to-remain-in-the-european-union-is-the-best-decision-for-the-uk.pdf (publishing.service.gov.uk)

The exact quote is:

This is your decision. The Government will implement what you decide

@DuncinToffee Never mind the Supreme Court, Cameron said.....

Correct. The courts apply laws made by MPs. On 29 March 2017, 498 MPs made the law that the UK will leave the EU in accordance with Article 50.