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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

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mrslaughan · 15/05/2021 13:13

Yellow spanner - so why don't they change the laws? So the HO does not continually break the law?

mrslaughan · 15/05/2021 13:15

From the wine merchant who has talked about how Brexit has affected his business.
Of course he doesn't vote conservative- so he and his business doesn't matter.... (though I am sure HMG is quite happy to collect his taxes)

twitter.com/daniellambert29/status/1393315651868102665?s=21

mrslaughan · 15/05/2021 13:17

Yellowspanner - the UK used to be a parliamentary democracy....but that description is not entirely true anymore.

borntobequiet · 15/05/2021 13:35

@yellowspanner

Wewereliars The UK is a democracy. The Government has a huge majority because so many people agree with their policies and voted for them. The fact that you don't agree with them does not mean they are a despicable regime.
The Government has a majority in Parliament despite more people voting for other parties because we have an electoral system that consistently returns Governments on a minority vote and effectively disenfranchises any voter living in a safe seat for either party. Neither of the two main parties is interested in electoral reform as it’s not in their interests. So the pendulum swings backwards and forwards, politics is polarised, consensus decisions abandoned and many many cans are kicked down the road, the reform of social care probably being the worst example. The current Government is despicable because much of what it does is manifestly despicable.
wewereliars · 15/05/2021 13:47

Yellowspanner thank you very much for explaining how UK democracy works.

In your next explainer maybe include the inherently undemoractic nature of the first past the post voting system.

After that, set out how the (foreign) billionaire ownership of the vast majority of right wing mainstream media affects the narrative of current events and the general understanding of government action and policy.

For extra credit add on the new developments in this particuar cabinet of a complete and utter lack of consequence for incompetence, corruption and cronyism.

We have a disgraceful regime which lacks competence and the basic decency which our unwritten constitution has relied on to properly function for centuries.

My opinion of the current government is my own and stands with or without your approval.

Clavinova · 15/05/2021 13:48

mathanxiety
Where in the rules does it say you have to have an interview lined up?

From the link - visitors without work visas may “attend meetings, conferences, seminars, interviews” and “negotiate and sign deals and contracts” - however, "visitors" have to satisfy border guards that they intend to return home after they have completed the purpose of their visit. 'Maria' said she thought she could stay until October to explore the job market - did she have sufficient funds to stay for that length of time without working? What sort of work was she looking for? What qualifications and experience did she have?

'hearsay' is moot.

The Guardian's sub heading is very misleading;
Europeans with job interviews tell of detentions and expulsions despite rules allowing non-visa holders to attend interviews.

The only job seekers they actually spoke to were two young women without job interviews.

Another obvious omission from the Guardian - had the interviewees complied with Covid-19 entry requirements from amber list countries? Were they planning to self-isolate for the mandatory 10 days before their job interview - or were interviews scheduled for the following day/day 4 of their visit? Had they booked and paid for 2 Covid-19 travel tests - to be taken on day 2 and day 8 of their quarantine and did they have proof of the booking?

www.gov.uk/uk-border-control

Seems a lot of hassle and expense for the interviewees when you can easily interview by zoom.

jasjas1973 · 15/05/2021 13:55

@yellowspanner

Wewereliars The UK is a democracy. The Government has a huge majority because so many people agree with their policies and voted for them. The fact that you don't agree with them does not mean they are a despicable regime.
Lol You mean like Tony Blair had in 1997 with less than 50% of votes cast? There is a reason few Western countries use a first past the post voting system.

UK is a democracy of sorts but its really in name only, how can the House of Lords in anyway be called Democratic? Yet a huge part of our "democratic" process.

Peregrina · 15/05/2021 15:11

The fact that you don't agree with them does not mean they are a despicable regime.

That is a dangerous attitude as anyone who is familiar with the history of the 20th century should know. Despicable regimes do get elected democratically. I will not spell it out unless someone really needs to ask.

dontcallmelen · 15/05/2021 15:59

.

DGRossetti · 15/05/2021 16:51

@HarrietPierce

It was heart warming to see the compassion shown by the people of Glasgow for those 2 men who they referred to as their neighbours.
I would hope if I were ever in a similar position I would also stand up to be counted and step in to prevent tyranny.

Bearing in mind a lot of people on this thread who are less that impressed by the actions of Glaswegians are a union with the set of people who grumble someone should have stopped Hitler (or Mussolini) when they had the chance.

The terrible recent story of that brave lad that died trying to rescue someone from the Thames really hit me hard for various reasons. There are some good people out there. Maybe not so much in this thread, but there are.

yellowspanner · 15/05/2021 17:05

DGR
I don't think it is reasonable to compare people like me who support the actions of the Border Force with those who failed to prevent Hitler. Our Government is not a facist government terrorising and gassing people. The 2 men in Glasgow were suspected of a crime.

yellowspanner · 15/05/2021 17:07

Peregrina, our Government is not terrorising UK citizens. They are attempting to arrest 2 men accused of a crime

DGRossetti · 15/05/2021 17:31

@yellowspanner

DGR I don't think it is reasonable to compare people like me who support the actions of the Border Force with those who failed to prevent Hitler. Our Government is not a facist government terrorising and gassing people. The 2 men in Glasgow were suspected of a crime.
If you read some history, you'd know that neither Hitler nor Mussolini actually stated off the full fascist. They could have been stopped even as they took power. Not by you, of course. But they could have.

It turns out that putting up with a one hour traffic jam (my 10 mile-25 minute commute took nearly 95 minutes last night) was me unwittingly supporting the Palestinian cause. In my case, my support was not going postal and doing a Michael Douglas ...

DGRossetti · 15/05/2021 17:38

@yellowspanner

Peregrina, our Government is not terrorising UK citizens. They are attempting to arrest 2 men accused of a crime
Postmasters, were they ?

Be careful how much you trust our legal system.

wewereliars · 15/05/2021 17:50

Yellowspanner You really seem totally unaware of history and how the descent into fascism can and does happen. Maybe read Some Hannah Arendt. It will open your eyes.

yellowspanner · 15/05/2021 17:58

I am well aware of recent European history. You are being completely unreasonable trying to compare our government with facist governments Ethan murdered millions of people

pointythings · 15/05/2021 18:12

@yellowspanner

I am well aware of recent European history. You are being completely unreasonable trying to compare our government with facist governments Ethan murdered millions of people
You are clearly not at all aware of recent European history. Hitler didn't march straight in and start gassing people, he took it slow and steady. Boiled frog syndrome. If you are not concerned about the government's erosion of the checks and balances in place (Henry VII powers, anyone?) Then we have the government's stated intention to change Mayoral elections to FPTP because the 'wrong' people are winning those elections - is that democratic?
TatianaBis · 15/05/2021 19:04

We are absolutely sliding into authoritarianism and Covid is enabling that.

Peregrina · 15/05/2021 19:11

They are attempting to arrest 2 men accused of a crime

Once again, I need to point out a word. This time the word is accused. I hope yellowspanner, that if you ever get accused of a crime, you get the chance to put your case before the appropriate legal authority; that you don't just get a punishment meted out.

Nazism and Fascism thrived because enough people were indifferent to what was happening.

Our Government is trying to make Voter ID compulsory, despite there being virtually no crimes of 'personation' occurring at Polling Stations. It is known that this will disenfranchise certain groups. Are you happy with that? I could also remind you that one Boris Johnson used to be strongly against ID cards.

yellowspanner · 15/05/2021 19:32

Pointythings,
Can I be clear?
Are you suggesting that our UK government is going to start killing millions of our citizens and invading nearby countries like the Nazis?

Peregrina · 15/05/2021 19:41

yellowspanner - try reading historical accounts from the late 1920s. People argued exactly like you but history has shown that their faith was misplaced.

I notice that you didn't answer my question about voter disenfranchisement.

pointythings · 15/05/2021 19:56

@yellowspanner

Pointythings, Can I be clear? Are you suggesting that our UK government is going to start killing millions of our citizens and invading nearby countries like the Nazis?
No, I am suggesting that we have a government that is corrupt and authoritarian, that is deliberately eroding our democracy and is capable of doing things to the freedom of its peoples that naive people like you are incapable of imagining. We are at the top of a slippery slope. And you voted for it.

Are you happy about the change in voting systems for Mayoral elections because it means 'your guys' are more likely to get in, even though there is no other reason for the change?

Are you happy that parliamentary scrutiny has been weakened?

Do you believe that this government will provide free ID to everyone before photo ID becomes compulsory for voting?

wewereliars · 15/05/2021 20:02

Yellowspanner Do you not understand that facist and totalitarian regimes develop over time?
It takes a number of steps eg proroguing parliament, throwing out everyone from the party who does not agree with the leader, repeatedly lying and refusing any accountability for wrongdoing.

These steps are intended to increase power to the centre and reduce accountability of the executive.

Johnson and his government have done all these things and are continuing down this path. People who point this out see clear echoes from history.

Do not call me unreasonable when you are apparently ignorant of recorded fact.

HarrietPierce · 15/05/2021 20:19

If we had to have a Tory Government it would have been far preferable to have someone like Rory Stewart as PM, rather than the populist Johnson who was voted in by many because he is perceived as "funny".

yellowspanner · 15/05/2021 21:10

Wewereliars,
I am happy that those people who vote against government policy when that policy was attempting to enact the result of the referendum being"thrown out" from the Party.
I have no problem with Parliament being prorogued as I think it was legal.
Elections in England are carried out on a FPTP basis. Why not mayoral elections? Is it because your candidate may not win?
I still think your views are unreasonable.

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