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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

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HannibalHayeski · 14/05/2021 10:58

And so the slow puncture continues.

More high rate tax payers moving to the EU, along with their assets...

LouiseCollins28 · 14/05/2021 11:25

Interesting video this Michael Lambert comes across all nice and liberal and then comes out with "that witch at the home office, the dreadful Patel woman?" I know what that comment is, it begins with R. I did however watch the rest of it despite this.

So many things I could respond to here.
Our population is not falling, our working age population is falling relative to the population's overall size.

I don't believe that France has ever done anything serious to stop people trying to emigrate illegally from leaving Calais. Since those people are in Calais the French Gov failed in preventing them from...entering France, just as the UK Gov fails to prevent them entering the UK because it doesn't really try.

"labour market shortages"....it wholly depends how much empoloyers are prepared to pay people to do these jobs. To use a ludicrous example to illustrate the point, pay someone to wait tables the same as someone earns as a stock broker and loads of people will want to do it. Offer people attractive terms and conditions, they'll come and work for you.

The bit where I do agree with Michael is that I agree we will surely see immigration from other parts of the world rise as EU nationals numbers fall. His visas/trade deals point is very good.

In sum from my POV: People seemingly just will not pay for a good or service a realistic accounting of what other people's work is worth here any more. For all its cultural and other benefits, that's what a globalised world gets you and it's a tragedy.

Peregrina · 14/05/2021 11:52

Our population is not falling, our working age population is falling relative to the population's overall size.

At present the population shows a slight increase. We have just had a census so in due course that should give us an up to date figure.

To use a ludicrous example to illustrate the point, pay someone to wait tables the same as someone earns as a stock broker and loads of people will want to do it. Offer people attractive terms and conditions, they'll come and work for you.

No, given that the population is aging relative to the working population, you would find that a lot of people were physically unable to wait on tables. It may look easy but I can tell you that having done jobs in my twenties were I was on my feet all day, it was tiring. I could not do that for eight hours at a stretch now at 70. Other jobs like crop picking - it's a complete no-no. Have you ever stopped to wonder why the people running round emptying your bins are young slim men, and not middle aged?

People will not or in many cases cannot pay for decent services.
I am not talking of the Rees-Moggs or the Boris Johnsons, I am talking of people on gig economy jobs on the minimum wage.

HannibalHayeski · 14/05/2021 11:57

That Patel woman is dreadful. Ghastly. Evil. I'm not sure the "R" word comes into it.

France used to do a lot, at their own cost, to stop people leaving Calais. Guess why they stopped?

Peregrina · 14/05/2021 12:03

If someone's behaviour shows by their behaviour that they are racist, is it wrong to point that out? Don't just think that only people with white skin can be racist - it is sadly a human trait.

LouiseCollins28 · 14/05/2021 15:29

No Perigrina I don't think thats wrong at all. Also completely agree that anyone can be racist to anyone else.

What I found distateful in the video from Lambert's mouth himself was the phrase "the dreadful Patel woman." He's probably just being colloquial but the alternative interpretation which turns on his using her having (probably) the most common Asian surname in the UK to "other" her is pretty poor IMO from someone who otherwise presents as a liberal.

yellowspanner · 14/05/2021 15:30

I think Priti Patel is an excellent Home Secretary. She is introducing a points based immigration system which should allow people into the UK who can contribute to the country.
The trouble with freedom of movement from the EU is that there were many people who came who did not work.
And more people from the Indian subcontinent will come which I fully support.

Peregrina · 14/05/2021 15:39

Each is of course entitled to their own opinion, but Patel was sacked by May with good reason. May was I think, at base an honourable woman, even if lacking in vision.

I look forward to seeing how many industries like hospitality can function once the country opens up again, because of all these EU people who apparently don't work, decide they won't bother to come.

Or how many more crops will rot in the fields. But that's fine of course, we will just air freight them in from Asia.

QueenOfThorns · 14/05/2021 15:39

But Patel is her name! If he’d said ‘that dreadful Priti woman’, people might think he was talking about the film Grin

There’s nothing racist about saying that she’s dreadful, there’s a lot of evidence to support that opinion.

HarrietPierce · 14/05/2021 15:52

Well she's definitely a dreadful woman but referring to her by her surname is hardly "othering" her.

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 14/05/2021 16:01

@yellowspanner

I think Priti Patel is an excellent Home Secretary. She is introducing a points based immigration system which should allow people into the UK who can contribute to the country. The trouble with freedom of movement from the EU is that there were many people who came who did not work. And more people from the Indian subcontinent will come which I fully support.
Apart from the bullying and the threatening to starve the Irish thing, and a whole host of other stuff I’ve forgotten.

Since you were so anti the French fishing minister threatening to cut electricity off, what is the difference between them and Priti Patel. They both use over the top threats as a way to bully other countries in negotiations.

HarrietPierce · 14/05/2021 16:04

"The trouble with freedom of movement from the EU is that there were many people who came who did not work"

Where are the statistics for this assertion?

Peregrina · 14/05/2021 16:11

Let's not forget that the Irish were starved out by Britain in the 19th Century. I wonder if Priti Patel ever stopped to question why there is a large Irish lobby in the USA?

HannibalHayeski · 14/05/2021 16:14

"I wonder if Priti Patel ever stopped to question"

I don't think you need to go further...

HarveySchlumpfenburger · 14/05/2021 16:24

I tend to assume she didn’t realise that and just assumed they starved because of the potato famine and didn’t realise British policy was responsible. It’s not like it is/was particularly well covered in the English curriculum.

pointythings · 14/05/2021 16:42

They both use over the top threats as a way to bully other countries in negotiations.

That's different, it's one of us doing it! Don't they know who we are?

Peregrina · 14/05/2021 17:31

Then of course you had the Bengal famine which is generally held to have been exacerbated by Britain's war time policies.
Same study but reported by a different source.

Some similarities can be drawn - the Irish potato crop was blighted but at the same time Ireland was exporting wheat. In Bengal, supplies of rice were cut off from Burma, but at the same time the British Colonial Government gave priority to feeding others than the Bengal peasant population. A previous century's relief effort was criticised because of the cost.

This is the sort of information which it might be hoped that senior Government ministers would be aware of.

Both Ireland and Bangladesh are now Independent - both also created from countries/territories being divided, which were actions of the British Government. is Independence a coincidence? Maybe, but I strongly suspect not entirely.

wewereliars · 14/05/2021 17:37

Anyone who thinks Priti Patel is a decent home secretary is just plain wrong. Her record is absolutely appalling. In any decent cabinet she would not be guven any role at all. This government is unfortunately full of incompetent corrupt arse kissers.

And we always had the ability to stop EU members staying after 3 months if they were not financially self supporting. Successive governments just did not find that worth doing.

DGRossetti · 14/05/2021 19:54

What I found distateful in the video from Lambert's mouth himself was the phrase "the dreadful Patel woman."

Seems equal opportunities with "Whacky" Jacqui Smith being That awful Smith woman ...

borntobequiet · 14/05/2021 20:29

The good thing with freedom of movement in the EU is that there were many people who came and worked very hard in the NHS, in social care, in universities and in other important sectors, and that many UK citizens were able to work in the EU with no constraints.

Fixed that for you.

HannibalHayeski · 14/05/2021 20:34

And, surprise, surprise, it appears that the government are, erm, massaging the figures to make it look like the drop in exports to the EU isn't as bad as it actually is. By not including intra-company movement. Because that couldn't possibly matter to UK companies...

HannibalHayeski · 14/05/2021 20:43

And in hypocrisy/idiocy/is there even a word to describe this stupidity news, the founder of UKIP is complaining]] that German companies have decided to stop bothering with the UK market.

Since he got what he was campaigning for.

I'm actually stuck for words...

yellowspanner · 14/05/2021 21:50

Our border enforcement officers were attempting to remove two people who were suspected of being here illegally.
I support that. How can anyone defend people coming here and remaining here illegally. It is breaking the laws of our country.

pointythings · 14/05/2021 22:09

@yellowspanner

Our border enforcement officers were attempting to remove two people who were suspected of being here illegally. I support that. How can anyone defend people coming here and remaining here illegally. It is breaking the laws of our country.
But they were not doing anything illegal. One of them was going to stay with relatives and help out with childcare, unpaid. Not illegal - unless EU nationals are now not allowed to stay with their relatives when they need a bit of help, for a short while? What's the next stop - turning away tourists because they're a bit foreign?

I really hope this is going to bite the UK on the arse. I really hope talented people will stop coming here because they know they are not welcome. I really hope the UK sinks deep into a mire of its own making and learns that xenophobia does not make political or economic sense.

wewereliars · 14/05/2021 23:23

Yellowspanner all despicable regimes have their apologists. There's nothing clever about it

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