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Brexit

Westminstenders: Sleaze. The Return.

1000 replies

RedToothBrush · 25/04/2021 13:37

The Brexit Agreement is still not signed. The EU are still pissed off with our bad attitude and how we managed to a have better deal on AstraZeneca's vaccines which they don't seem to like anyway.

The Ireland / NI border is still a mess. Both politically and economically. This is apparently something that wasn't discussed pre referedum, with regular Westminstenders suffering from collective delusions over remembering differently and reading madeup stories which just happen to be dated prior to the referendum. Its a sign of how good fake news has got.

The lying architect of Vote Leave is complaining about the lying of Vote Leave's biggest champion and cheerleader, countered with the pm who cheated on his ex wife multiple times and ran off with a younger woman accusing his former aid of being deeply sexist.

The government is embroiled in numerous accusations of lining its own pockets following the brexit power grab by the right wing of the party. Which of course wasn't a worry pre referendum. As of course accountability generally.

In keeping with taking a lead on the world stage, we have seen through our promises to cut back on overseas aid, instead preferring to spend money on trading. This is well represented by our purchasing of 10million AZ vaccines from India with not much sign of sending aid to help with the unfolding humanitarian crisis there.

Our post Brexit foreign policy looks muddled at best. The new world order is a big confusing. We dont mind trading with regimes which have human rights abuses... As long as they are countries which are smaller than us and we can exploit. We don't particularly like China atm because we aren't getting much out of the shitting on others. Plus its not really proving a great opportunity for Westerners to line their pockets like other dodgy regimes because its generally closed to outsiders and this is even more true in covid times.

But don't worry, we will soon be able to go abroad again on our covid passports. The 17th May beckons when the penny will drop that efforts to integrate medical records with passport data which apparently border agencies are working on, isn't ready yet and that doesn't matter because other countries won't be ready to let us in yet, especially since we are outside the EU and EEA and we haven't been great at talking to them. And we probably will still have to quarantine on return anyway. (End of June is still optimistic but more realistic).

We've still to impose customs checks yet because we didn't want to do it in April in case that meant the shops would be empty when they reopened. So we still have that joy to look forward to. Great for EU exporters. Less great for uk exporters. For now.

Of course we have the May Council elections to look forward to, in which it will become apparent just how fucking useless and invisible Keir Starmer is and how Labour policies are not connecting with voters in spite of all of the above. Mainly due to navel gazing and an inability to get beyond their social circle. Any good ideas they do have are promptly nicked by the Tories.

Post Brexit talk of reviewing the Monarchy are also growing in steam...

If we look back it feels like the sleaziness of the early nineties has returned but with no prospect of joining the Eu, no John Smith or Smiling Tony to inspire, no coming Cool Brittania to cheer us up. Just sleaze tolerated and accepted, rather than rejected. And one massive debt than had been largely repaid.

Its hard to see where we go from here. We seem bewildered by geography and confused by technology. Unwilling to invest in science and no longer aligned with the right people to collaborate effectively.

Instead we are more pre occupied with in fighting.

As a friend said to me this week, they had started to watch alternative news channels to British based ones because she felt we had become so inward looking. She felt like our mentality was increasing like the US which simply was unaware of events and ideas beyond our borders. I think its a comment that has so much ressonnance.

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mrslaughan · 15/05/2021 21:16

Legal - even though it a court of law, was found to be illegal.
And here we get to the crux - yellow believes everything her side does is legal (even when it's against the laws passed through Parliament) - because they hold the power...... good to know.
It's a reprehensible position - but there you go. At least it's very clear she does not truly believe in democracy.

yellowspanner · 15/05/2021 21:18

And I can't see why the Government should provide free ID to everyone. Everyone can come up with some form of ID

mrslaughan · 15/05/2021 21:22

Maybe check your privilege

Peregrina · 15/05/2021 21:34

Everyone can come up with some form of ID

My parents would not have been able to once they got old. They stopped driving, hence no licences. They weren't fit enough to travel, hence letting their passports expire. Would bus passes be acceptable? They didn't have those either, not being very mobile but at least a bus pass is easily obtained.

My parents were well enough off to renew their passports, but why should someone who is not going to travel have to stump up £75 to vote?

From your responses I form the opinion that no, you don't really believe in democracy; that it's only if they vote the way that you agree with. If Blair for example had tried to prorogue Parliament illegally I would bet that you would have been screaming your head off about it.

Johnson, who as I said, used to be against ID, might find that he is disenfranchising as many of his own elderly voters. Younger people tend to want to prove their age, to access places like pubs and nightclubs so tend to break their necks to get passports to be able to get in.

wewereliars · 15/05/2021 21:44

And that mixture of shameless ignorance, inability to follow or make a logical argument alloyed with the arrogance of the poorly informed is why we are in the mess we are. God help us.

Peregrina · 15/05/2021 21:51

The Brexiters don't think we are in a mess though, well apart from those places that had the temerity to elect Labour mayors, or those counties that chose to throw out Tory councillors.

yellowspanner · 15/05/2021 22:34

We are not in a mess.
The Government has just had an excellent set of overall results in the recent elections. It is clear many people support them and their policies.

Peregrina · 15/05/2021 22:36

Which does not mean that the country is not in a mess. Witness 1930s Germany, which set itself on a course to destruction, although there were plenty of short term gains initially.

Peregrina · 15/05/2021 22:39

Social care for example, is broken, but it's not something Johnson saw fit to tackle in the Queen's speech. Much better to concentrate on voter suppression.

borntobequiet · 15/05/2021 23:06

We are not in a mess.

Well that’s something you don’t hear often nowadays. Refreshing, if somewhat deluded.

yellowspanner · 15/05/2021 23:09

Peregrina, are you suggesting that our country is going the same way as Nazi Germany?

Peregrina · 15/05/2021 23:20

Peregrina, are you suggesting that our country is going the same way as Nazi Germany?

I am saying that it could do. I think any country could. It would be hoped that we have learnt from the lessons of history. The Germans in the 1930s almost certainly didn't know where it would lead. No country now has the luxury of not knowing.

I appreciate that this is the sort of response you probably won't want to hear. You appear to want something black and white and I am not in a position to pander to you.

BlackeyedSusan · 16/05/2021 00:45

illegal prorogation of parliament followed by a proposal to limit the power of the courts and the areas they can preside over.

voter disenfranchisement: lower income people are less likely to have photo id and more likely to vote something other than conservative.

entryism. right wingers entering the local tory parties and moving the choice of candidates to those who are more right leaning.

removing more moderate members of the tory party for diagreeing with one political ideal. Party moves right

ministers who have broken the code by bullying (civil servant resigned)

ministers accused of corruption (lobbying by Priti Patel is the latest)

primeminister of fiddling declarations of interest and being investigated (holiday and wallpaper?)

increase in powers of ministers to make decisions without recourse to parliament.

supporting clear breaches of covid rules in staff (barnard castle)

Sonia Khan, the advisor who was escorted out by the police, after being sacked by DOminic Cummings and later received a payout. Then Cummings was given powers over discipline. (according to the Guardian) the chancellor not being allowed his own advisors and resigning. (concentration of power in one office instead of spread across government)

appointing minister previously sacked for informal of the record meetings with foreign powers

accused of corruption in awarding large contracts to friends and donors, which turn out to be not very efficient/productive.

there were complaints by the speaker that things were announced to the press before being announced in Parliament: sidelining of Parliament.

removal of whip from Julian Lewis when he beat Chris Grayling to chair of the Intelligence and securities committee in a vote.

not meeting with Mark Drakeford regarding corona virus restrictions... (sidelineing of devolved governments. )

marginal seats were given money for regeneration, though some mnot so marginal poorer areas were not given money. (vague memories of reports on the BBC R4)

I am sure there are more things I have forgotten. little steps, just a little change here and there, slowly boiled frogs.

yellowspanner · 16/05/2021 07:50

No, Peregrina, I simply asked a question. I had no idea how you would answer, otherwise I would not have asked.

AuldAlliance · 16/05/2021 07:59

The Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill, curtailing the right to protest on the grounds of noise/public disruption, is another example of the slow but sure erosion of individual rights.
Which some posters here may welcome, because they are well chuffed with how things are going in the country at this specific moment in time and disapprove of anyone who protests to express disagreement with official policy, planned or otherwise.
But it's a major red flag, among others listed on here.

prettybird · 16/05/2021 07:59

Excellent - and depressing - list there @BlackeyedSusan SadAngry

TheElementsSong · 16/05/2021 08:49

That is a great list @BlackeyedSusan and presumably each item will be patriotically applauded as not merely legal, but postively glorious, by the True BeLeavers.

Peregrina · 16/05/2021 09:25

And their test should be whether they would welcome this if done by a Labour PM or in Scotland by the First Minister. I hardly need ask, they would be apoplectic with rage.

prettybird · 16/05/2021 09:39

Remember the apoplexy and attempted VoNC when the FM was simply accused not even "found guilty" of possibly having tried to influence the investigation into Alex Salmond Hmm? The inquiry wasn't even about that per se: it was supposed to be about whether the process was appropriate and what had gone wrong with it. Confused

pointythings · 16/05/2021 09:48

yellowspanner thinks all the things listed by Blackeyedsusan are great because they're being done by her side and affect only people who are not her. For people like yellowspanner, democracy isn't for everyone, it's only for the 'deserving'. A sad state of affairs, and even sadder than so many people in the UK think this way.

Peregrina · 16/05/2021 09:57

Then it's time that yellowspanner, and indeed all, remembered Pastor Niemoeller's poem.

If it's still on BBC Sounds, Richard Dimbleby's report on the liberation of Belsen should be listened to. Listening it to a few months ago, it brought tears to my eyes.

This is what a civilised, educated nation could fall for. It could happen to any nation. The generation mostly now passed away knew this and did their best to prevent it happening again.

prettybird · 16/05/2021 10:02

I was thinking of Pastor Niemoller yesterday when reading yellowspanner's assertions that everything is fiiiiine HmmSad

HesterThrale · 16/05/2021 10:06

People may ignore (or excuse) what they dislike: unacceptable behaviour from those they align with, or common sense from those they don’t.

With a mountain of evidence (such as Susan’s list) isn’t it harder to explain away?

And the alleged “bodies piled high” comment?
Johnson has often said ‘no more lockdowns’ and must feel great pressure, understandably, to re-energise the economy.
Would he ignore common sense and ‘past lessons learnt’ for political reasons? Risk another wave? I hope not.
And is there a link to Brexit? There may be.

For the decision to delay putting India on the red list of countries, from which travel is heavily limited, and the decision to implement this not immediately but with a gap of just over three days - during which thousands of travellers from India entered the country amid a surge of demand for flights - happened in the shadow of one of the biggest of all political and economic stories of recent decades: Brexit.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-the-three-days-in-april-that-may-have-fuelled-uk-outbreak-of-indian-coronavirus-variant-12306393

Of course, we’re all desperate for a release from restrictions, and willing the vaccination programme on, but there are still about 17 million folks completely unvaccinated. For them, the ‘Indian variant’ is a threat.
There was so much warning back in April.

mobile.twitter.com/chrischirp/status/1382316137225027595?lang=en

mobile.twitter.com/YvetteCooperMP/status/1393220512139128840

mobile.twitter.com/SophyRidgeSky/status/1393251887286263817

mobile.twitter.com/BBCBreakfast/status/1384046138848727041

I sincerely hope for no more waves - and still feel hopeful - but it is, according to SAGE, a serious variant.

mobile.twitter.com/ShaunLintern/status/1393262075363856384

yellowspanner · 16/05/2021 10:40

You all seem determined that we live in a country with a government that is quietly pursuing a route to Nazism.
That is unreasonable and has no basis in fact.
And all because we voted to leave the EU, Boris supported Leave, won a large majority and implemented the result of the referendum. Remain MPs did everything they could to block the implementation of the referendum result but that was all laudable because you supported Remain.

yellowspanner · 16/05/2021 10:42

I remember Militant Tendency moving into every branch of the Labour Party in Liverpool. Do you condemn that?

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