Anyone changed their minds

[Baileysforchristmas]

From being a remainer to a Brexiteer on here?

Arf.

There are probably are a few. Because vaccines, the Guardian, Meghan etc.

No thanks. Remain voter, would still vote remain. The vaccine row is temporary and at some point all will vaccinated who want it.

The financial shit show that is brexit will be with us for a long time, 10 years according to Raab

2016 Vaccines not an issue
2017 Vaccines not an issue
2018 Vaccines not an issue
2019 Vaccines not an issue
2020 Vaccines not an issue
2021 Vaccines a massive squirrel for a few months
2022 Vaccines not an issue
2023 Vaccines not an issue

Still a Remain voter, so no. But as a commentator in the Guardian said to someone who now regretted their Remain vote - why? You've got Brexit regardless of your vote.

How can anyone want to be part of the EU after this

www.politico.eu/article/eu-sends-italian-police-to-find-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccines/

@Peregrina

Still a Remain voter, so no. But as a commentator in the Guardian said to someone who now regretted their Remain vote - why? You've got Brexit regardless of your vote.

Good point!

No. Would vote remain again. Am capable of thought beyond single issues.

@ListeningQuietly,

The vaccine issue per se will disappear quickly.

The argument of whether the oil tanker of the EU, massively powerful, but ponderous and slow moving, will outpace a U.K. , stripped of much power, but able to move quickly in key decision making, will remain with us for many years.

Surprisingly, maybe, U.K. PMI (regarded as a leading indicator) is currently higher than Eurozone PMI.

Sometimes a small boat is more efficient, sometimes you need an oil tanker. A small rowing boat would be utterly useless to bring in a decent supply of oil - like filling a bath with a cup instead of turning the taps on.

The vaccine issue will disappear, but what realistic efforts are the Brexiters making to make good the loss of trade with the EU? What exactly are they doing to resolve the NI issue? How will the Turing scheme compensate for the loss of Erasmus etc.?

It's notable that as soon as the transition period ended the first people to start complaining were the fishermen - one of the groups most strongly supportive of Brexit. Let's wait until they are happy again and start to enthuse about the advantages that Brexit has brought them.
As the person I quoted said, we have Brexit anyway - let's now see the Brexiters make good on their 'easiest deals history'.

@Peregrina,

Agree re the boat analogy. There are both pros and cons to Brexit.

Erasmus, however, is a massive red herring. The MN demographic (lots of stay at home parents) care about this deeply, but it affects a tiny percentage of the population.

Most who choose to study abroad can easily afford to pay. A tiny minority will be adversely affected (tiny does not equal zero, so anecdotes are unnecessary here, although real statistics always welcome).

Am capable of thought beyond single issues.

It's the fact that this is the EU's first real hurdle since we left, and they have blown it in such a catastrophic way. We will have to wait and see if it was a 'one off', but I think anyone with any sense will be keeping the EU at arms length until they can control themselves a bit more tbh.
I'm astonished that they think treating manufacturers they way they have will do anything but drive them into our arms!

The EUs threats and bully boy tactics over the vaccine shortages, along with the shambolic rollout, confirms my belief that large bureaucratic organisations don't necessarily work well. I voted leave because of this type of expensive bureaucracy and the ridiculous amounts we had to pay in.

No. I don't think the EU has covered itself in glory over the vaccine issue at all - on the contrary, I think it has behaved quite badly. However, I still believe that it's in our long term interests to be part of the single market.

Remain is irrelevant now as we have left, but if we had a vote tomorrow on whether to rejoin, I would vote yes.

It's the fact that this is the EU's first real hurdle since we left, and they have blown it in such a catastrophic way We will have to wait and see if it was a 'one off', but I think anyone with any sense will be keeping the EU at arms length until they can control themselves a bit more tbh.
I'm astonished that they think treating manufacturers they way they have will do anything but drive them into our arms!

Fuck trade eh? 40.7% drop in exports to the EU from Dec 2020-Jan 2021. The value of EU exports plummeted by £5.6bn - the sharpest drop since records began.

Do you really think that is sustainable?

Well it has proved to me the EU actually need the UK to keep a level head, we only left in January, the EU seem to have lost the plot as soon as we left.

I didn't vote originally as I was on the fence but now I would vote to leave, I'm so sick of the EU and their bully boy ways. I thought Juncker was an idiot but now Ursula seems to be an arse and Macron totally does my head in.

So your fence sitting paid off, because you've got Brexit.

Level head does not equal fucking up trade, economics, farming, finance to chase nationalist unicorns.

Fuck trade eh? 40.7% drop in exports to the EU from Dec 2020-Jan 2021. The value of EU exports plummeted by £5.6bn - the sharpest drop since records began. Do you really think that is sustainable?

Brexiters mostly appear happy with this, well apart from the eel man whose business collapsed and fishermen who were the noisiest supporters of Leave.

No.

I voted Remain, campaigned for a second referendum and would do so again. The fact that the EU have spectacularly fucked up on one issue, their vaccine rollout, doesn’t change that. The U.K. have also spectacularly fucked up their handling of the pandemic, just in different ways.

Unfortunately, I do think the vaccine issue has killed any possible ‘rejoin’ movement for at least a generation and that the chances of us rejoining the EU in my lifetime are now zero.

The vaccine issue is a red herring, very useful for the government to steer attention away from the loss of trade and the fact that companies are jumping ship. If you read the European press you get a very different picture on the vaccine issue. If Brexit hadn't happened then the EU couldn't stop exports to UK as they wouldn't be exports.

The U.K. have also spectacularly fucked up their handling of the pandemic, just in different ways

Yes lockdown strategy has been far coherent in Germany, France and Italy for example than here.

Test and trace has also worked much more effectively in other countries.

Worth remembering vaccine strategy was not the government's but an appointed crony who happened to be effective. The success is all
due to Kate Bingham, her appointed taskforce + the NHS.

There is no way any government minister would have done such an effective job as Kate.

@TatianaBis

Surely the point here is that we could appoint someone quickly and based on their ability to do the job, whereas the EU had to politically compromise on their vaccine ‘czar’ and had to sacrifice competence for political expediency.

Unfortunately, I do think the vaccine issue has killed any possible ‘rejoin’ movement for at least a generation and that the chances of us rejoining the EU in my lifetime are now zero.

For five or ten years at least - but hopefully the pandemic will be over in a year, but the Brexit effects will still be with us. Minor trade deals half way across the world are not likely to compensate for that.

On vaccines, I heard that India was planning to stop exports- which I think is where many of our vaccines come from. Why are people not screaming about that?

I'm a Brexit voter mildly pleased and surprised to see the EU showing its true colours so soon after Brexit.

Wonder if Ger-exit it will be next?

Some government cronies are appointed on ability, some on close ties. Would Kate have been appointed if she hadn't been a schoolfriend of Rachel Johnson and her husband wasn't an OE friend of Boris?

EU problems with vaccine rollout being used to justify leaving the single market and customs union suggests a basic failure to grasp economics.