Anyone changed their minds

[Baileysforchristmas]

From being a remainer to a Brexiteer on here?

Oh. Right, I see what you mean. They'll be heading to the equally fucked up economies of the EU. So we'll have a level playing field after all...

But the EU was always clear that states would manage their own fiscal policies – set their own tax rates...

Not sure about that statement:

August 2019 -
EU: Full tax harmonisation under the new Von der Leyen Commission?

Bob van der Made of PwC assesses the current level of tax harmonisation across EU member states, and evaluates whether there would be further harmonisation under a new EU Commission.

European Commission president-elect Ursula Von der Leyen published her vision and Political Guidelines for a next Commission...stating:

"European companies ask for simple tax systems and simple rules, especially when working across borders..."

"A CCCTB would provide businesses with a single rulebook to compute their corporate tax base in the EU. This is a longstanding project of the European Parliament and I will fight to make it a reality."

"Differences in tax rules can be an obstacle to the deeper integration of the single market. It can hamper growth, particularly in the euro area where the economic ties are stronger. We need to be able to act."

"I will make use of the clauses in the Treaties that allow proposals on taxation to be adopted by co-decision and decided by qualified majority voting in the Council. This will make us more efficient and better able to act fast when needed."

Von der Leyen has shown her clear ambition for progress. Full direct tax harmonisation in the EU could indeed be a bridge to the future but also could turn out to be a bridge too far for national governments – again...

www.internationaltaxreview.com/article/b1gtsh7n5788fw/eu-full-tax-harmonisation-under-the-new-von-der-leyen-commission

July 2020 -
ANALYSIS: Is EU bailout the first step to fiscal integration?

After some tortuous negotiations, EU leaders have struck a deal on the EU recovery fund, designed to direct cash to those nations hardest hit by the covid-19 outbreak.

It came in spite of significant opposition from the ‘frugal four’; Austria, Denmark, the Netherlands and Sweden; and in a watered-down version – but has been seen as an important first step towards fiscal integration for the bloc.

Ella Hoxha, senior investment manager, global bonds at Pictet Asset Management, admits there is still much to be done to achieve closer fiscal ties across nations, including, “a banking union; deposit guarantee across the EA and functioning capital markets union across borders.”

However, she believes it creates the genesis of a fiscal union...

Bill Dinning, chief investment officer, Waverton Investment Management, also believes the new bonds suggest further integration down the line: “It implies that there will be pan-European taxes to finance the payback of the debt."

“Such taxes may include further pushing the “green agenda” that is an overt plan across the continent. So, taxes on emissions and carbon are possible, as are such things as a Financial Transactions tax.”

expertinvestoreurope.com/analysis-is-eu-bailout-the-first-step-to-fiscal-integration/

Was referring to the current status quo Clav. The single currency was set up without fiscal union.

The issue is ongoing, but as I have already said, I don't expect to see full fiscal integration in my lifetime as it requires a degree of political integration that we are nowhere near and nations don't desire.

Your own link summaries aptly:

Full direct tax harmonisation in the EU could indeed be a bridge to the future but also could turn out to be a bridge too far for national governments (who each have a veto).

Was referring to the current status quo Clav.

No, you quite clearly posted; the EU was always clear...

Ursula Von der Leyen stated;

"This is a longstanding project of the European Parliament..."

The post was in response to:

It is a fatal flaw of a single currency, single interest rate area to have variable taxation.

My response was that the EU was always clear (when the Euro was set up) that it was a currency union not a currency and fiscal union. Ie it did exactly what it said on the tin.

What the future holds is debatable. I have already said I don’t think we will see fiscal union in my lifetime because neither the degree of political integration nor the desire from all member states is there.

@TatianaBis, so familiar with the le Pen family that you spell their name incorrectly?

I love Europe and wish the MS well. I'm much less keen on the Commission which is a gravy train for the politicians who are too dangerous and agressive for domestic consumption. Hence them being put out to grass in Brussels.

Well yeah as, typo notwithstanding, my family are from an area of France where FN has long had support (south).

So the conservatives joined us up to the EU, but we all hate them, but we should have stayed? It makes no sense. The EU is imploding, we got out at the right time. And vaccines are important when your live is controlled by Covid restrictions.

So glad I voted leave.

So Maggie Thatcher who is a saint to many Tories, was the leading light behind the single market, but we now hate that. How strange. Glad you had the foresight to predict a global pandemic to justify your vote though.

@TatianaBis,

'It is a fatal flaw of a single currency, single interest rate area to have variable taxation.

My response was that the EU was always clear (when the Euro was set up) that it was a currency union not a currency and fiscal union. Ie it did exactly what it said on the tin.'

Yes, but that does not mean it is not a fatal flaw. The Euro without federation or fiscal union is a very arrogant conceit. Whenever it has been attempted in history before (and there are some instances), it has always fallen apart.

@Peregrina come on don't be bitter. You're telling me if it was the other way round , we'd remained that the EU would of prioritised us out here on our completely separate and densely populated island ? And if it had somehow worked out you would of been humble and not rubbed it in the face of the leave voters.

No

No. I get the feeling that Brexiters aren't getting much satisfaction from their fake victory and want the "hearts and minds" of Remainers too. Some are suggesting that Remainers should support Brexit now because of "democracy". That is, of course, rubbish. I would have no personal integrity left if I accepted the lies of Brexiters.

I see the impact described in the article from the other side, living in an EU country.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9616655/UK-doing-goods-trade-non-EU-states-EU-Brexit-Covid-economic-slump.html

I used to order from Amazon UK on a regular basis. Also other UK based shops. Recently I was ordering from UK Amazon and was told that there will be a "temporary" custom charge on top of the price of product. I promptly cancelled the order and ordered the same from Amazon DE.
I no longer order clothes or shoes from UK based companies, just in case there will be custom charges or delays too.
On the positive side, I now found other companies, local or in other countries, which offer great service and great products. I also discovered crowdfarming, which is an amazing project and I have several orders for food directly from farmers pending.
It used to be convenient and fast to order from the UK but that's not gone. As such, I feel like I'm a part of the declining curve in the graph in the article.
I feel sorry for the UK people who are impacted by the slump in the business with the EU but maybe I see it in a negative way and there's very little as people in the UK now increased ordering within the UK or do more business with other, non-EU countries and are doing well.