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Brexit

Westminstenders: Governing by U-Turn

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 07/09/2020 01:45

Johnson's determination to get brexit done and to have 'a clean break from Europe' on terms which involve other countries happily returning fishing rights they bought from us (without recompense for the said previous purchase) in addition to the EU accepting terms they don't feel create a level playingfield and risk their economic future make any deal impossible. Our demands simply aren't achievable.

The alternative is adherence to the Withdrawal Agreement in which we are unable to bail out businesses via state aid and to have no deal which creates huge trade barriers and tarriffs overnight and massive customs red tape which we simply are not yet prepared for because the systems for running this are running behind schedule. This would lead to massive food shortages and Brexit lorry parks throughout the country for the forseeable future.

Johnson's latest bright idea is that he seems to think he can avoid chaos by a strategy which would cause even more chaos by deliberately reneging on the withdrawal agreement which is an international agreement just months after throwing a hissy fit for China doing exactly the same thing. This wouldn't just be hypocritical but would make a mockery of our credibility internationally and potentially endanger every other international agreement we've currently in place because well, why should anyone else stick to an agreement with the UK.

We could face years of legal wrangles with god knows which countries and businesses suing the British government.

But y'know Johnson thinks this is a sensible strategy and a cracking plan to force Brussels to blink first rather than actually take the subject seriously and do something in the country's interest rather than prevent Johnson from damaging his internal reputation with leave voters and because he thinks this is the correct hill to die on to prove he doesn't govern by u-turn. Johnson's ego seems more important to him than feeding the nation and having an international reputation.

Or he could do another u-turn.

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Thread gallery
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ListeningQuietly · 09/09/2020 16:18

LouiseCollins
If you can make sense of this you are doing better than me
www.gov.uk/government/news/coronavirus-covid-19-what-has-changed-9-september

Are structured activities and meetings between workplaces allowed to happen or not ?
Who will enforce the rules?

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2020 16:19

@prettybird

What is it with Cummings this WM Government's obsession with 3 word slogans? Confused

"Hands. Face. Space." Hmm

Remarkably similar to the FACTS campaign that the Scottish Government has been consistently promoting now for weeks if not over a month - but like everything that WM does more vague on detail.

Face coverings
Avoid crowded places
Clean your hands regularly
Two metre distance
Self isolate and book a test if you have symptoms

They can't string more that three words together to form a coherent sentence?

The public can't comprehend more than three words together before it gets too hard to understand?

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OchonAgusOchonO · 09/09/2020 16:21

The real damage would be to the UK's reputation and would be lasting

If they actually go ahead with this, the real damage would be to NI. The level of damage depends on how long this takes: Quite likely, by then the UK will be under quite different management, that will have repealed any WA-breaching bill and will have returned to orderly negotiations - in which case processings would be amicably stopped.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 09/09/2020 16:25

Anyone else find themselves following hands, face, space with camera, tv or is it just me?

DGRossetti · 09/09/2020 16:28

Even if Trump is re-elected, he is out for Trump only and won't defend the UK if it angers the powerful Irish-American bloc and reduces his ratings

Wargaming a Chinese response to - quite legtimately - take Hong Kong into Bejings control (if nothing else to protect them from the unrest that could flare up in NI) there arises a dilemma for POTUS (let's assume it's Trump) who wants to keep in with China.

The "secret" here is to bear in mind none of this means anything to the man that squats behind the man that works the Soft Machine. Not only are they quite happy to trash the UKs reputation - or what there is of it. But it can't come soon enough.

I wonder what key shotguns fire in ?

40 years ago, I listened to "London Calling" as a beacon to draw power from around the world. Now it's just a distress call.

Is it wine o'clock ? (Not for me, have to drive to a hospital appt. at 5:45).

DGRossetti · 09/09/2020 16:29

@OhLookHeKickedTheBall

Anyone else find themselves following hands, face, space with camera, tv or is it just me?
Big Fish Little Fish Cardboard Box
LouiseCollins28 · 09/09/2020 16:30

I agree listening it is tricky to know, I have a voluntary role within a place of worship and asked the question about 11pm last night about what we can and can’t do. PM says groups larger than 6 ok there, but it’s still not totally clear.

I think the Hands; Face; Space message is fairly good actually. Simple, easy to remember, easy for children to follow, which I think is important now schools are back.

I get that people can want more complex, nuanced messages but for mass comms I do think simple, memorable stuff is the way to go.

To quote and example, what was “Clunk, Click...” asking of us? See, I don’t even need to write the whole message and I’d still be confident masses of people in Britain reading those 2 words would know what I was referencing.

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2020 16:30

@OhLookHeKickedTheBall

Anyone else find themselves following hands, face, space with camera, tv or is it just me?
Nope.

I have "Hands, Face, Make Space, Hey Macarena! LETS DO THE TIME WARP YEAH!" stuck in my head instead.

Which probably reveals far too much about me.

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prettybird · 09/09/2020 16:37

They can't string more that three words together to form a coherent sentence?

True Grin

I read that out to dh who replied with his own 3 word sentence: We. Are. Doomed.

Could have fun with this:

Scotland. Is. Off.

England. Is. Fucked. and no, I don't take any player in that Sad

International. Pariah. Nation.

Formerly. United. Kingdom. (aka FUKD)

Grin
DGRossetti · 09/09/2020 16:38

what was “Clunk, Click...” asking of us?

Let the train take the strain ?

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2020 16:39

To quote and example, what was “Clunk, Click...” asking of us? See, I don’t even need to write the whole message and I’d still be confident masses of people in Britain reading those 2 words would know what I was referencing.

A finger of fudge is just enough to give your kids a treat.

The red car and the blue car had a race. All blue loves to do is fill his face. He eats everything he sees from truck to prickly trees.

Eric is no ordinary schoolboy, because when Eric eats a banana he becomes Bananaman!

They threw him away like a piece of ribbish into an old dark warehouse. Then from outter space came a spotty man, who took him to a special cloud where mother nature gave him special powers. That bear become SUPERTED!

All because the lady loves milk tray.

My point here is i can recite these easily after a long time not merely because they were 3 words but because they were cultural reference points / good advertising campaigns which everyone remembered and became long term cultural reference points too.

So Im not sold on the idea that we are restricted to three words if we have a good advertising / public health messaging.

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RedToothBrush · 09/09/2020 16:40

I am waiting for the first person to fuck up saying 'rule of six' on live tv...

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Words · 09/09/2020 16:41

Moonshot of mass testing?
Mass testing to prove people not infectious and can 'mingle normally'?
What could possibly go wrong? Hmm

ListeningQuietly · 09/09/2020 16:42

I have a meeting booked next week in a room with real people
I LOVE reading legislation
but I cannot work out if it will be legal or not
what a clusterfuck

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2020 16:43

@ListeningQuietly

I have a meeting booked next week in a room with real people I LOVE reading legislation but I cannot work out if it will be legal or not what a clusterfuck
Work related.

Quite probably unaffected from first reading of statement from government.

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Songsofexperience · 09/09/2020 16:44

If it's a work meeting then it's legal I think

Songsofexperience · 09/09/2020 16:45

I envy you. Being made redundant and now working freelance from home, it's like I'm still in lockdown. Slowly going loopy...

Words · 09/09/2020 16:45

How do they know people have no clinical need for a test? Why would you bother? It is a capacity and planning issue yet again.

ListeningQuietly · 09/09/2020 16:46

RTB
But its lots of people from different (very small) organisations.
On the other hand we have booked speakers and an agenda
and the case load round here is very low

that guidance is worse than useless

can day care activity groups for the vulnerable stay open or not?

AuldAlliance · 09/09/2020 16:46

Vorsprung durch Technik
Be all that you can be
Be a winner
Eat to get slimmer

A bluer kind of white
It could be yours tonight
We're mild and green
And squeaky clean

Better by design
Fly the friendly skies
The appliance of science
We've got that ring of confidence...

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2020 16:47

COVID-19 Secure venues, such as places of worship, restaurants and hospitality venues, can still host larger numbers in total but groups of up to 6 must not mix or form larger groups. This rule will not apply to individual households or support bubbles of more than 6 who will still be able to gather together. Education and work settings are unaffected, and organised team sports will still be able to proceed, as will weddings and funerals up to 30.

Trying to work out whether scouts will fall under the term of educational or if its buggered. Its organised and had special rules for meeting in public separate from other guidelines.

DH is stressed as hes planned everything on the basis of bubbles of 15 outside and says he mentally cant do another term on zoom because its too difficult.

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Songsofexperience · 09/09/2020 16:48

Zoom is draining. So much worse than talking irl.

yoikes · 09/09/2020 16:49

Ds2s birthday plans up the spout.
Nevermind- we will give family members time slots to arrive!

LouiseCollins28 · 09/09/2020 16:49

SuperTed!! 😂😂😊😊 see I’m focusing on the important stuff.

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2020 16:49

@Songsofexperience

I envy you. Being made redundant and now working freelance from home, it's like I'm still in lockdown. Slowly going loopy...
Dh has. I have pictures to prove his complete mid life zoom crisis.

Like seriously, hes in his late 30s and he and his best mate whose in his 50s and also wfh have bleached their hair (and thats for starters).

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