Westminstenders: Where are we now?

[RedToothBrush]

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

I wondered that too JeSuis. I had chicken in my online shop so I've put it all straight in the freezer.

jesuis This article lists these as contributing factors to the high number of meat packing plants being closed internationally due to huge levels of infection.

-Closeness of workers to each other on production lines and in break rooms
-Shouting due to the noise in the building
-Coldness of air (it doesn’t happen in veg factories)
-Lack of proper face coverings
-Speed of production line
And:

There are also socio-economic factors. The CDC noted that in one factory 40 different languages were spoken so communicating information about social distancing and safe working practices was difficult.
Workers also travelled to work together - either on buses or in car shares, enabling the virus to spread even further. Employees were also more likely to live in crowded, multi-generational households, facilitating the spread of the disease to older, more at-risk individuals.
The precarious working conditions of factory workers may also be a factor. If they are on zero hours contracts or, in the US, do not have medical insurance they may be unwilling to take sick leave.
Prof Wood added: “If the outbreaks are large that might suggest that there may be continued transmission in some plants, raising the question of whether people are coming to work when unwell.”

I don’t know if it’s been proven that the actual meat could be contaminated.
But I suspect these are really not nice places to work.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/revealed-meat-processing-plants-ideal-incubator-coronavirus/amp/

So last week there was a post about salmon in China having been contaminated with COVID... Anyone know whether this could be happening at these meat packing plants too?

As soon as I heard that there was a "fresh" outbreak at an abattoir I wondered if there was some sort of species jumping going on. Especially with pigs being humans with squeaks as far as a lot of diseases are concerned.

It's "interesting" to speculate what a discovery that domesticated meat animals could carry C-19 could do worldwide. Apart from give Donald Trump another theory that won't tax his supporters communal brain cell that C-19 is a "vegan plot" to rob Americans of their right to a burger.

Although I would have thought proper cooking would render meat safe ?

Yes meat packing plants have long been a horrible environment to work in (remember a tutor saying she went into work for one, visited the factory floor and so many of the staff had weeping cuts on their shins due to poor fitting wellies they had to wear daily). My issue is that even though most of these meats will be cooked, we know how easy salmonella was to spread. Just a flick of the wrapper over the sink could spread droplets. A lot of people still wash chickens out (don't do this!) or might have a rare steak...

My issue is that even though most of these meats will be cooked, we know how easy salmonella was to spread. Just a flick of the wrapper over the sink could spread droplets. A lot of people still wash chickens out (don't do this!) or might have a rare steak...

A lot of people don't understand the difference between bacteria and toxins. Hence the blind faith that simply cooking something will zap all known nasties.

I have changed my behaviour totally as a result of 2 programmes on TV - one was "Bang goes the theory" about a thawed and refrozen fruit slowly accumulating toxins from the cycle of breeding/dying bacteria.

That sounds like something I need to watch. I was told frozen fruit and veg have better nutritional value from being "sealed at source" and not being covered in sprays to make them look fresh.

Student nurses can "Fuck right off" says Tory MP.

nursingnotes.co.uk/news/student-nurses-not-deemed-providing-servicemp/

like the foreign HCPs can fuck off if they want exemptions from high charges for visa, NHS care etc for themselves & their families

Some Tory politicians have the memory of fruit flies - or think the public have wrt being grateful to HCPs for their service during the pandemic

Of course, the crisis may be far from over yet ...

@JeSuisPoulet

That sounds like something I need to watch. I was told frozen fruit and veg have better nutritional value from being "sealed at source" and not being covered in sprays to make them look fresh.

It was definitely BGTT - Dr. Yan (not the time lapse one Google pulls up).

He took a fruit (the whole point was it wasn't meat) and froze it, thawed it, froze it, thawed it. And at each stage stained for toxins - not bacteria.

The point was after 3 cycles the thing was covered in nice stainable toxins that would survive the cooking process. Because they are toxins, not bacteria.

The upshot was that cooking was no substitute for good food hygiene. And that means being vigilant about freezing stuff - and how long it stays in the freezer for.

For myself (well chez Rossetti) it meant being much more anal about how long things stay in the freezer, and never refreezing anything, as well as being careful defrosting - ideally in the fridge.

The older you get, the more susceptible you are to food poisoning. Having had a shock when someone I was at Uni with died of food poisoning 6 years ago (so in their 40s) it's something that was on my mind.

The other programme stopped me using my mobile phone when driving. And I mean stopped. No handsfree, no nothing. It stays off.

The 2 sisters site in anglesey has a bit of a history.

When I looked at it last night, before the press caught up with the BBC reporting, this article popped near the top of the search. It's from 2014:

www.dailypost.co.uk/news/north-wales-news/ANGLESEY-CHICKEN-FACTORY-2-SISTERS-7524214
Anglesey chicken factory '2 Sisters' cleared over alleged hygiene failings
The Food Standards Authority has given the all-clear from hygiene inspections at Scunthorpe and Llangefni sites

An Anglesey chicken factory has passed an inspection following an investigation over alleged hygiene failings.

A probe was called for the 2 Sisters Food Group plant in Llangefni after reports in the national press claimed that carcasses came into contact with workers’ boots and were returned to the production line.

But yesterday, the company announced that they had passed the Food Standards Agency's audit.

In a statement 2 Sisters said: "Both sites – at Scunthorpe and Llangefni – have passed the rigorous audit processes which were carried out on July 25.

"Scunthorpe has been rated as “good” and Llangefni as “generally satisfactory”.

It does raise a few questions for me.

Anglesey

Mona

Site of the Druids last stand - and it didn't end well for them - or Boudicca (when the legions got back to her).

Harry Dunn case reminds us of what the US are like - and it's not good.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-53132168

...
In Sir Ivor's view both the British and US sides knew that back in 1995 they had agreed that "both agents and their dependants" were subject to British criminal law in their non-work activities at RAF Croughton.

For the Americans to argue the opposite would, he said, be regarded by professional diplomats as a breach of good faith.

Words and expressions like "palpable absurdity", "dishonourably" and "breach of good faith" are rare from a top expert on diplomacy.
...

Yes, major outbreak in German meat plant, but, for context:

Devi Sridhar

Reality check: Germany (pop 83million) running 200-300 cases per day and sudden outbreak is 1000 cases from a factory. UK (pop 66million) running 1200-1500 cases per day. Like an equivalent big outbreak everyday in the UK.

mobile.twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1274977021530116096

Btw, Devi Sridhar is good. We need people like her in politics.

Not long after we moved to the states I read an article about the prevalence of E. coli, on particularly minced beef. DH had gone native and had started have burgers rare🤢. Anyway I told him of the article , and so at cheaper places (diners and the like) he started having them properly cooked. Anyway a v expensive "gourmet "' burger joint opened across the road from his office. We actually had a discussion about the burgers, with me saying that just because they were expensive didn't mean safer. His theory was they should be prepping their mince themselves - but never checked.
Anyway- it didn't take long for him to catch E. coli - and honestly I am not sure I have ever seen him so sick.
Put him off burgers for a very very long time. Such an idiot!

Just when I don't think Trumps actions can shock me - he goes and pull that stunt with regards to the international courts.
His corruption knows no bounds.

I have have never found myself hoping that someone dies before......he really is a blight on the world and human kind

The orange one is sadly even more dangerous when he is now evidently holding on to his banana republic.

What outrage to the otherwise educated American as surely he is not the smartest cookie in the American melting pot is he?

For us in the potential transatlantic fallout be expecting the unexpected as notwithstanding Covid fatalities, race civil wars or not he (GodPapa Don!) is going to triple down to try to get him and his tribe across the political electoral line!

Interesting and frightening times ahead people!

Hester Absolutely agree. I was cheering along to this. Lockdown and a properly coordinated public health response along the lines that were already happening in Asia with testing tracing and quarantine should have been planned from January when all the signs were coming out of Asia. Now what is needed is the humility to learn lessons. I won't hold my breath ..... www.channel4.com/news/it-is-muddled-thinking-im-not-sure-what-the-government-is-trying-to-do-with-this-virus-prof-devi-sridhar

I ventured to collect a roast from the local pub yesterday, they have been doing them throughout the pandemic and collection was always well organised and socially distanced, and felt safe. I arrived to a totally unsocially distanced queue down the street. I was directed to a cordoned off socially distanced area to wait for food but the people buying takeaway beer were making no effort, not one mask, nobody stood behind the line that clearly stated please stand behind this line so they were socially distanced from bar staff. And their toilets were open so I was constantly having to swerve out of the way of men wondering carelessly in their direction. I shan't be going anywhere near a reopened pub.

Oh, I don't know if that is typical - maybe just a bolshie area ?

Here, restaurants have been open for several weeks, first just outdoors, now indoors too.

In my area, which by all reports is fairly typical in this respect,
social distancing is continuing in queues (& shops too)
masks on until seated at the table.
I have to fill in a form with contact details before my order can be taken

Good social disancing still at my gym, 5 ½ weeks after opening

Surprising btw that no outbreaks yet in gyms

• several in churches and we exhale, pant etc far more vigorously than church singers or preachers

Also, church is just 1.5 hours weekly, whereas gym is multiple weekly visits for most of us

Not much social distancing in the local country park. A large group of teens/20s with cars parking up and meeting together.

I don't know if this country has more of a group who just don't give a shit than other countries or not.

It's hardly surprising considering the muddled, confused messaging and actions of the government, particularly the inability to get consistent messaging across. I think this largely stems from the guest hosting of the daily briefing, cf. Scotland, much, much better, with logic, planning, and consistency. If the message in England appears vague at times, it's no surprise that some people chose to ignore it, and even quite likely that people don't understand it.

Definitely not a bolshie area, actually the epitome of middle class suburbia, a craft / real ale pub with lots of classic 70s vinyl and excellent meat supplier. I don't think they were being bolshie about it, just seemingly oblivious to the need to still observe Covid measures. The green spaces were also busier than I ever seen them, lots of gazebos with crowds beneath them for Father's Day parties....

Well we had a stabbing in our town yesterday, so we can only assume youths at least have given up on distancing...

DGR none of the actual episodes seem to be online but some of the clips are very interesting although I am now wondering if I should do and do a BTEC Diploma in electronic engineering and become an apprentice so I can earn 40k+ as an electrician

This is all rather uplifting, although I note they don't mention whether we have enough PPE restocked...www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/why-doctors-say-uk-better-prepared-for-second-wave-coronavirus

@Jason118 yes I've had 3 friends say they've now given up trying to follow the govt advice as it doesn't seem to mean anything or be based in reality. In fact there was outrage amongst our year as a mum who has a child in R managed to wrangle her Y4 back to school as well, despite neither parent being a keyworker. She was boasting on fb about there only being 12 in a class! I don't think anyone knows what is meant to be going on now.

We popped to see DS this afternoon, and did a top-up shop at ASDA to get him a tray of donuts (they'll always been your kids ).

Got 2 packs of facemasks to keep in the car "just in case" (because 99% of the ones you do see in public are really for show ...)

On a different topic .. all Trumps actions regarding the ICC (if found legal by SCOTUS) will do is accelerate many countries conscious uncoupling from the US and it's sphere of influence. They can join the UK at the "they used to have it all" pity party of 2040.