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Brexit

Westminstenders: Where are we now?

966 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2020 21:21

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

OP posts:
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59
DGRossetti · 22/06/2020 15:31

bylinetimes.com/2020/06/22/jeux-sans-frontieres-boris-johnson-gives-up-controlling-the-uk-border/

Jeux Sans Frontieres - Boris Johnson Gives Up Controlling the UK Border

Though it made much of controlling the borders, Mike Buckley reports how the Vote Leave Government is abandoning the principle at great cost to business and the NHS

Well governed countries do not rip up trading relationships or fail to protect their own borders, yet that is exactly where our Government is heading. Michael Gove recently announced that the UK will not impose full border controls with the European Union (EU) on 1 January, deal or no deal. He tried to paint this as providing help to businesses as they adjust. In reality the move is an admission of Government failure.

The Government have failed — and clearly expect to continue to fail — to conclude a viable deal with the EU. Just as bad, despite the fact that the end of the transition period has long been known, they have failed to prepare on the ground for the imposition of border controls.

The lack of border controls on the UK border will be of minimal help to business. The EU will impose full controls. They have no intention of letting the UK become a back door for substandard goods entering the Single Market. In contrast, Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Gove seemingly care little if the UK becomes a dumping ground for poor quality food or products.

Gove’s move is no more than an acceptance of reality. There is no time to recruit, train and deploy customs staff. There is no time to build border infrastructure.

The Government have no answer to business’ legitimate desire to know what future trade requirements will be. The same is true for service companies wanting to continue to do business on the continent. In contrast the EU will be ready for 1 January and will implement checks to secure borders and protect citizens. For service companies, the legal system which governs cross border contracts will cease.

Gove’s move is no more than an acceptance of reality. There is no time to recruit, train and deploy customs staff. There is no time to build border infrastructure. Given their refusal to extend the transition period the only option now is to admit defeat and become a global rarity — a rich, developed country without controls on its own borders.

The Government want us to believe that this decision gives business certainty. It does nothing of the sort. The uncertainty businesses face will simply be extended it by a few months. Many will still need to complete customs forms for the first time. They still do not know what the future relationship will be. They still have no clue how to prepare.
Impact on Medical Imports

The importance of all this business cannot be overstated. While COVID-19 has been challenging it has not affected supply chains. Exporting and importing businesses have been able to trade as normal, benefiting them, consumers and the NHS, which is reliant on open borders for access to medicines and PPE.

Access to medicines, in particular, could become an issue after 1 January. The NHS has used the medicine stockpiles it built for a ‘no deal’ Brexit. Given the ongoing nature of the pandemic and an NHS waiting list of other complaints likely to hit 10 million this year they will have little chance to rebuild.

The last thing the NHS will need in January will be disrupted supply chains when they could be dealing with a second COVID-19 wave and a winter ‘flu crisis. Gove failing to check items as they leave or arrive will do little to speed things up as full checks will remain on the EU side. The lack of process on this side of the border could even hamper EU checks; they will have no customs officers on this end to talk to. If incoming border checks truly are absent there is the nightmare scenario of medicines reaching the NHS that are out of date or falsely labelled.

Business leaders are unimpressed with the Government’s change of plan. Anna Jerzewska, a trade consultant, said it remained unclear how companies would benefit from a light-touch border regime. “The procedure only delays the obligation to submit a full customs declaration,” she said. “It doesn’t remove it. The additional administrative and cost burden for the private sector doesn’t actually change.”

Business has long been wary of unequal treatment of imports and exports but that is exactly what the new regime means. National Pig Association advisor Ed Barker said the Government would need to decide between imposing low tariffs — causing huge damage to the domestic farming sector — or maintaining tariffs on EU imports and forcing prices rises for consumers.

There is then the question of timing. The EU will demand tariffs are paid immediately, the UK will allow a 6-month deferral, disadvantaging UK producers.
Negotiation Ploys

Business certainty will only come when a deal is agreed but the negotiations are stuck. Our Vote Leave Government wants continued Single Market access while we opt out of its rules, standards and legal system. Michel Barnier, negotiating on behalf of the EU27, is clear that this will never happen. ‘We cannot accept the UK’s attempts to cherry-pick parts of our Single Market benefits,’ he said on 10 June.

The Conservatives have long stopped caring about business. They ditched business with Theresa May’s Lancaster House speech. Defining Brexit in the hardest possible terms — inevitably wounding business and the economy — was not forced on them by the Leave vote. It was a political choice made for reasons of internal party management and electoral calculation, not real-world benefit.

The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) has calculated that the UK economy will be damaged more by COVID-19 than any other developed country. We will suffer a second blow in January because of Brexit. Even if we generously see Coronavirus impacts as a mix of fate and bad governance, Brexit is the Government’s responsibility alone. Hard Brexit is their choice, as is the end date of transition and stalemate in negotiations.

Failing to prepare to control our borders displays Government impotence in the face of Brexit impacts, not strength. They have played the strongman for their vote base but the EU27 remain unmoved and will not imperil the EU project for the Conservatives’ benefit.

It is not too late to turn aside. The Government even now could extend the transition or accept reality in the negotiations. As the Trade Justice Movement have shown the Brexit deal does not need to mark a race to the bottom. It could instead promote fairness and sustainability. Those of us who care about the state of our economy, all the more so in light of COVID-19, must do what we can to keep up the pressure and work for change.

DGRossetti · 22/06/2020 15:36

I know quite a few posters on here appreciate different takes on world events, so here's a predictably insightful view from P.J. O'Rourke

americanconsequences.com/ignore-the-signal-listen-to-the-noise/

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 15:41

Reminds me of a very apposite PJ O'Rourke quote:

"Conservatives are the party that says government doesn't work,
and then they get elected and prove it."

RedToothBrush · 22/06/2020 15:41

One friend has never obeyed lockdown. He flouted it throughout has got the hump because it was his birthday last week and when he asked us all if we would all like to have a picnic in the park (at least a group of 15 depending on whether kids came or now) we all declined saying it was too many. Two of the group work in schools which have been putting out messages to children and parents to observe the law and been told if they don't they could recieve an official warning and he seems completely oblivious to their social responsibility.

His kids have been playing in the street with other kids, and when he came around the other week he made us and another friend who was also around feel really uncomfortable because he wasn't socially distancing at all.

Otherwise our immediate social circle is largely following the guidelines as far as I know. We are all avoiding certain places locally we know to now be notorious for a lack of social distancing. The ice cream van stop being the worst offender. We've seen each other in groups of no more that 6 at a time.

On a personal level, I only went further than 1 mile from the house for the first time since the week before lockdown 3 weeks ago and I only went into another building other than my house for the first time last week (garden centre). We've done everything online. We went to the next town over last weekend and I found it extremely stressful due to the lack of social distancing. I won't be doing it again for a while, especially since the distance is likely to be reduced scrapped tomorrow.

I simply don't want to be as unwell as I was at the start of the year when I had a mystery virus which took months to get over.

On the flip to that, although we have been pretty straight down the line, we know others who remain even stricter than us and haven't seen anyone outside their home and haven't gone anywhere yet. These are not vulnerable adults.

Its a really mixed bag of who and how many people are observing it still.

The friend who has been acting like a dick, had random children coming in and out of his house last weekend whilst we were on a zoom call with him. He has managed to piss several of us off a great deal. We'd turned something of a blind eye to twattish behaviour during the height of lockdown, but we are now all thoroughly fed up of it, especially since he's made shitty remarks about how we've not been willing to also break the law. It only serves to make DH and I stay home more ourselves tbh.

As a side note, DS's school has taken some children back who are not keyworker children nor technically classed as vulnerable on a discretionary basis - the school have judged the family to be struggling particularly badly and the child potentially at risk as a result due to the individual circumstances. So if there is a parent saying about how the school had taken their child, thats the lens I'd be viewing it through tbh.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 22/06/2020 15:52

If we are swapping PJ quotes (and I'm sure when we are all dust, he'll be alongside Mencken for Wikiquotes) the one which chimes with UK politics if you swap "Republican" for "Conservative" and "Santa" for Labour" is:

I have only one firm belief about the American political system, and that is this: God is a Republican and Santa Claus is a Democrat.

God is an elderly or, at any rate, middle aged male, a stern fellow, patriarchal rather than paternal and a great believer in rules and regulations. He holds men accountable for their actions. He has little apparent concern for the material well being of the disadvantaged. He is politically connected, socially powerful and holds the mortgage on literally everything in the world. God is difficult. God is unsentimental. It is very hard to get into God's heavenly country club.

Santa Claus is another matter. He's cute. He's nonthreatening. He's always cheerful. And he loves animals. He may know who's been naughty and who's been nice, but he never does anything about it. He gives everyone everything they want without the thought of quid pro quo. He works hard for charities, and he's famously generous to the poor. Santa Claus is preferable to God in every way but one: There is no such thing as Santa Claus

JeSuisPoulet · 22/06/2020 16:35

Red I suppose at least I can preen a bit then that even as a single mum (gasp!) dd is not vulnerable or in desperate need. Tbh I had thought they went into lockdown the same week we did for medical reasons but obviously not! It is a bit galling that a child who has had 2 parents (both furloughed) local grandparents and a sibling is allowed back for education when poor dd with only me for brains and my dwindling budget being spent on tutors while I try to stay sane isn't... Thinking about it she did make a point of saying they couldn't afford tutors. She is possibly the only family in the year playing that one to the school as a family with a detached 5 bed in the village Grin

mrslaughan · 22/06/2020 17:17

Yes Red - the one child from my daughters class who has been in throughout Mum has mental health issues. I think they are generally well controlled - but I think the pandemic has tested everyone mentally.

We are having our first friends (1family) around this week - mum , is a single mum and she is having a really shit time of it. It's quite a big step for us to "bend" the rules..... though I suspect more our own rules than anyone else's.

I kind of know the governments rules - well infact I do , but I have lost complete trust in their advice so we are sticking what we believe is the best way to stay safe.

A different friends daughters school sent out a letter on Friday saying the were very concerned to here the kids talking about their sleepovers, play dates and parties, and reminded the parents of the guidelines. We live surrounded by fields - so don't have neighbors to watch flouting the guidelines.....

yoikes · 22/06/2020 17:30

Lots of our neighbours have been flouting the rules for some time (even back in march)

Next door had approx: 12 people round on saturday. No SD.

The other side have had lots of young children on play dates/sleepovers.

I try not to judge. I think having very young children during lockdown would have broken me.

I made the decision a while ago to make my own risk assessments as the govt are twats who don't give a shit about us plebs.

I'm happy so far with my choices/actions.

I'm still SD but having friend/s in the garden for coffee/cakes. Separate entry/entrance.

I wash my hands regularly and in the recommended way. I have had sanitizer in my bag and car.

I don't use public transport so don't wear masks unless I go to drs/hospital.

So, all in all I feel as safe as I can be.

DGRossetti · 22/06/2020 17:38

Ah, the innocence of youth

Westminstenders: Where are we now?
mrslaughan · 22/06/2020 18:31

The one good thing about that bill is it will make it clear the conservatives wanted no deal...... as if we didn't know......

On another note saw an interview with her on TV talking about her leadership bid. I fear she is another Jo Swinson .

Peregrina · 22/06/2020 18:40

It will be voted down by the sheep in the Tory Party, but at least all the others can say that they tried. So when the shit does hit the fan, it will be a little harder for the Tories to lay the blame elsewhere. Not that it will stop them trying!

Peregrina · 22/06/2020 18:50

From the byline times article:

Gove failing to check items as they leave or arrive will do little to speed things up as full checks will remain on the EU side.

What a gift for the Brexiters: nasty EU insisting on Customs checks, .e aren't checking our borders. (Er what was that about controlling our borders?)

DGRossetti · 22/06/2020 19:00

Gove failing to check items as they leave or arrive will do little to speed things up as full checks will remain on the EU side.

At what point will that cause the UK to fall foul of other countries that do bother to make checks ? Isn't it a WTO requirement ?

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 19:35

Not afaik
If you want to let any old unsafe shit into your country, you can

.... so long as you treat all other countries the same, if you don't have trade agreements with them
e.g. might have trouble if EU goods are waved through but goods from China, India etc are not. Especially from the USA, if no agreement.

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 19:37

Of course, letting in goods from certain countries could make the EU and other countries even more suspicious of UK exports to them
and make them even more careful checking at their external borders

ListeningQuietly · 22/06/2020 20:10

Layla Moran is UTTERLY unelectable.
Anybody who thinks that declaring themselves pansexual will appeal to the bulk of the electorate needs to get out more

mrslaughan · 22/06/2020 20:11

She is Listening- so no doubt they will elect her leader....

ListeningQuietly · 22/06/2020 20:13

MrsL
I hope that the Swinson debacle will get enough of the members to vote with their heads that she might not ....

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 20:33

Her election would keep Uk politics as a 2-party game

A Paddy Ashdown especially, or David Steel could have made a lot of headway in this situation,
with the govt bungling 2 major crises - COVID & Brexit

However, the LibDems are currently a party of deluded minnows

BigChocFrenzy · 22/06/2020 20:40

That report on Russian influence in UK politics is still buried and - No 10 keep hoping, forgotten .... nope

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/22/boris-johnson-theres-may-ignored-claims-russia-had-likely-hold-over-donald-trump-ex-spy-christopher-steele-claims

Boris Johnson and Theresa May ignored claims the Kremlin had a “likely hold” over Donald Trump and may have covertly funded Brexit,
the former spy Christopher Steele alleges in secret evidence given to MPs who drew up the Russia report.

In testimony to MPs, the MI6 veteran accused the government led by May and in which Johnson was foreign secretary for two years of turning a blind eye to allegations about Trump because they were afraid of offending the US president.

Steele first presented a dossier about Trump to senior UK intelligence figures in late 2016, who he says took it seriously at first.
But, he writes, “on reaching top political decision-makers, a blanket appeared to be thrown over it”.
...
The allegation is contained in a short summary of a larger file of information presented in August 2018 by Steele to parliament’s intelligence and security committee (ISC),
inquiring into Kremlin infiltration into British politics and public life.

mrslaughan · 22/06/2020 20:56

The reason Boris wasn't privy to all info/security info as Foreign Secretary?

colouringindoors · 22/06/2020 21:50

Layla Moran 🤣🤣🤣

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 22/06/2020 22:12

Layla Moran the pansexual?

I trust lovely mums here don’t mind me asking - but what the alrighty is a pansexual? Do excuse my ignorance but I am old fashioned regular favour - you know mum and dad equal child that sort of thing or is this not a thing these days as after all this is Mumsnet?

Is this a thing and what’s the next label of sub group and why does what you do in bed or with whom matters in politics as it’s not a dating or sex trade is it?

Mind boggles as thinking out loud - is that a positive and proud marketing tool boast and apart from fellow pansexuals (how many are there in this camp anyway?) is it a vote winner and do you always ask your candidate about their badger dark private liaisons?

ResIpsaLoquiturInterAlia · 22/06/2020 22:15
  • correction typo as exited even thinking about this as meant to say after (not badger) dark liaisons but I think you get the picture!

Pansexual - word of the day/night but not for child to learn in home schooling!

LouiseCollins28 · 22/06/2020 22:47

“I trust lovely mums here don’t mind me asking - but what the alrighty is a pansexual? Do excuse my ignorance but I am old fashioned regular favour - you know mum and dad equal child that sort of thing or is this not a thing these days as after all this is Mumsnet?”

“Pan Sexual?!” Presumed that it meant getting yourself off into the Le
Creuset? Classy girl is our Layla, expensive tastes.

www.johnlewis.com/le-creuset-toughened-non-stick-cookware-pan-set-4-piece/p3525492?sku=237499756&s_ppc=2dx92700053274715704&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclsrc=aw.ds&&gclid=CjwKCAjwrcH3BRApEiwAxjdPTai04PhTw5NEGhuAn8QzKodPuC2lssb-GzOaErSYa-jcTXPH9M9yhhoCUMUQAvD_BwE