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Brexit

Westminstenders: Where are we now?

966 replies

RedToothBrush · 12/06/2020 21:21

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
59
JeSuisPoulet · 24/06/2020 09:04

Has Tim Martin been flown out to The Orange One yet? Looks like his joints will be providing a lot of big data in a couple of weeks and even if our govt haven't prepared for it, I'm willing to bet other countries have! www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/jun/24/businesses-face-privacy-minefield-contact-tracing-rules-england-campaigners

Jason118 · 24/06/2020 09:12

Could this be world beating?

HSE’s Covid-19 contact tracing app is ‘ready for launch’
via The Irish Times
www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/hse-s-covid-19-contact-tracing-app-is-ready-for-launch-1.4287162

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2020 09:15

www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-becomes-latest-council-warn-18474539.amp?__twitter_impression=true
Manchester becomes latest council to warn of potential ‘bankruptcy’ due to Covid-19
The city’s treasurer says it ‘could well be in that territory’ by autumn without further government bailout, while its leader says services and jobs are now at risk

Other town halls across the country have already warned 114 notices could be in the offing, including Leeds and Liverpool.

Story to watch.

HUGE problem in the offing especially due to how social care is funded.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 24/06/2020 10:42

I suspect the temptation of some businesses to drive a coach and horses through GDPR with their "contact" data gathering will prove too tempting. Especially as there's been no real penalty for GDPR breaches in the UK yet.

When lockdown started, I had flood of emails from organisations that I had opted out of all marketing with which were essentially marketing spam with a subject line "Important information about coronavirus".

I wonder how companies are expected to check any ID offered ? When (some) shops used to try and harvest data at the till I'd just obviously make shit up and see if they had the nerve to check it (never did). SW1 1AA is a good postcode to remember, for various reasons.

In theory, you'd think that simply getting the banks to run through all debit card transactions in pubs (especially if cash is banned) would be a good start to tracing who was in a pub when. But quite aside from the fact that banks seem to struggle with basic banking these days, let alone something like Project Data Snoop I don't think it's a good idea to start a precedent where the state gets free sight of everybodies spending all of a sudden. The scope for abuse would make the old "sus" laws look like an invitation to the Palace. (It could also render all those loyalty cards redundant overnight ...)

I wonder how many illicit liaisons the new T&T regime will expose ? When a cheating spouse gets a call from the T&T team and has to provide their spouses details ?

Although the saving grace is this is a UK project. So pretty much doomed from the off. Much like the whole of the UKs response to C-19.

thecatfromjapan · 24/06/2020 11:06

I'm increasingly alarmed about the situation in the U.K.

We have, by default, opted for 'prevalence of Coronavirus accepted, alongside widespread shutdown measures.'

That means: state schools continuing to offer partial and patchy education; limits on ability to gather; decreasing revenue sources for local councils; continuation of lack of scrutiny for government.'

All those changes we were worried about with Brexit? They're happening now, accelerated and without scrutiny precisely because of the way the government is choosing to handle Coronavirus.

Right now, in real time, we're seeing a major assault on the sector of public services and on state education.

The slight 'holiday' atmosphere is masking a massive shift of capital.

Meanwhile, a lot of the Left, who need to be talking about this, are indulging in nothing short of a carnival and a last hurrah of Corbynist dream politics. And the Right? Well, I think DGR's post about Cummings' record on using the Henry VII powers when it comes to handing out contracts without open tendering tells us everything we know.

Right now, even before Brexit fully kicks in, we're seeing a massive shift to a very undemocratic kleptocracy.

And we seem to be sleepwalking into it. Partly, I think, because one of the key things the government's choice of approach to the pandemic does is corrode networks of information, communication and opposition.

And, yes, I am profoundly worried about unemployment (masked at the moment), lack of funding for public services, and state education.

RedToothBrush · 24/06/2020 11:22

DGR I fully intend, that I will only go to the pub if I can leave fake contact details if I have to leave details PRECISELY because of the problem with privacy that this creates. Otherwise I simply won't go to the pub. DH is of a not dissimilar mindset.

That doesn't help businesses.

TBH the new rules about pubs reopening don't exactly make it an inviting place anyway. If I can only meet 6 people or 2 households it doesn't solve the social issue we have where we have a group of several families which socialise with each other. It means that Zoom remains is a much more appealling option for the time being.

In some senses I'm glad that we are still restricted to those numbers from a health point of view. On the other hand, I think I'd set myself up for thinking they'd relax the numbers a little so more so I'm finding myself a touch frustrated.

I'm a regular pub goer, but the way the relaxing of the rules is being implimented, means that actually I don't think much has changed on a personal level compared to the last relaxation. I doubt I will have much desire to change my habits from where I'm been for the last couple of months.

I don't NEED to go to the shops and I don't NEED to go to the pub and there isn't enough incentive to put up with the new rules.

I suspect I won't be alone in this, and this is why the economy won't bounce back that quickly.

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 24/06/2020 11:24

thecat
Its why I'd suggest getting out and meeting friends now

because when the furlough money
and the SEIS
and the bounceback money runs out
a LOT of people will get angry

just as the weather starts to get worse

so that by the time Christmas comes round and the shops are emptying, not filling

there is a chance that Brits might get up off their padded backsides and get angry

too late to change Brexit and December
but they will

DGRossetti · 24/06/2020 11:42

DW and I aren't really big pub goers anyway (wheelchair and all that) so we don't feel like we are missing out.

I don't think DS has missed them too much either (and the younger generation were rather unsportingly drinking less anyway).

There might be a business opportunity here for some canny people to offer the space of a pub, without actually serving a drop of anything, and punters BTOB ? Unless there is going to be a requirement that any gathering of people - even in private - needs verified ID from all participants ?

Meanwhile, anyone remember paying for pints with BitCoin ? Who knew it might have been a trial run for IDless drinking in 2020 ?

DGRossetti · 24/06/2020 11:45

I don't NEED to go to the shops and I don't NEED to go to the pub and there isn't enough incentive to put up with the new rules

I'm trying to articulate why that echoes with the fact that advertising is based around things people don't need either ... I can't help but feel it's like two jaws that could meet with a hell of a squeeze.

Emilyontmoor · 24/06/2020 11:55

BigChoc Thanks, the consultant presented it as a choice between the risk of Covid and the continuing pain. Hence given there is a scientist in the house working with the Covid team it has been decided to wait and see if the relaxation of lockdown causes a surge in local cases. They have not yet separated the operating theatres hence not starting up elective surgery but as far as they know nobody caught it in theatre. It spread around the elderly patients on the wards. So the risk is small at the moment but may rise in the next couple of weeks If all those Lib goers start spreading it.

A friend did remark that it was good that the pub had opened the toilets even if those going there were a risk because before that all the drinkers in outlets green spaces must have bladders of steel or 😮

Emilyontmoor · 24/06/2020 11:56

Pub goers not lib goers! Though around here there would probably be a big crossover 😂

DGRossetti · 24/06/2020 12:04

Meanwhile, aren't we supposed to be seeing a steady rise as a result of the BLM protests ... 17 days ago ?

HoneysuckIejasmine · 24/06/2020 12:15

@ListeningQuietly

thecat Its why I'd suggest getting out and meeting friends now

because when the furlough money
and the SEIS
and the bounceback money runs out
a LOT of people will get angry

just as the weather starts to get worse

so that by the time Christmas comes round and the shops are emptying, not filling

there is a chance that Brits might get up off their padded backsides and get angry

too late to change Brexit and December
but they will

That's my feeling too. People will get angry alright. But it'll be too late by the time they do.

I'm maintaining our brexit stash and continuing to do food shops regularly and keep stock levels high.

DGRossetti · 24/06/2020 12:23

People will get angry alright. But it'll be too late by the time they do.

(best John Lydon impersonation ...)

Ever get the feeling you've been had ?

Peregrina · 24/06/2020 12:26

there is a chance that Brits might get up off their padded backsides and get angry

No there are still people singing the praises of Johnson and will only get angry if he extends the transition. Or so they say. I really wonder what would happen if food and medicine ran short. It's a bit hard now to blame Remoaner MPs - because Johnson has a majority with moderate MPs replaced with Brexit toadies. Who else will they blame?

HoneysuckIejasmine · 24/06/2020 12:32

Well the EU, of course!

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 13:05

I must confess I don't mind anyone knowing I sit outside at our local cafe, 300m away from where I live,
watch the boats on the Rhine and have a salmon bagel

Fear of militant vegans ? Hardly any of them here

It would be different if I went to a bordello - where iirc customers must also give details ! Grin

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 13:07

Cash is still normal here at small and large shops, restaurants too

My local farmer (she has 3 stalls outside in her courtyard) accepts cash only, never had a card machine and probably never will

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 13:08

My "contactless" card never has been so in my area - I always need a signature or a PIN
Maybe it works in cities like Frankfurt

DGRossetti · 24/06/2020 13:13

My local farmer (she has 3 stalls outside in her courtyard) accepts cash only, never had a card machine and probably never will

Well that will on account of tax dodging and funding terrorism at the same time. Busy life, farming.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 13:13

The extra cost to countries that seriously cut & underfunded these public services

e.g. USA, UK
is likely to exceed many decades of the extra payments that would have maintained services

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/23/anthony-fauci-covid-19-statement-house-hearing

A US public health chief told Congress on Tuesday that coronavirus has “brought this nation to its knees”

as America struggles with more than 2.3 million confirmed cases and more than 121,000 deaths so far.

Dr Robert Redfield, director of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC),
told a hearing in Washington that

core public health capabilities in the US had been vastly underfunded for a long time and needed urgent investment.
.....
“We are probably going to spend $7tn because of one little virus”

DGRossetti · 24/06/2020 13:16

My "contactless" card never has been so in my area - I always need a signature or a PIN

When C&P came in, I noticed in Europe you still needed a signature. Or rather no signature meant the store was liable for fraud.

The UK decided consumers were grown up and could shoulder the liability, so they paid for any fraudulent activity.

As a huge history of business tome I once read noted: it's an anglophone peculiarity that businesses can do no wrong - it's always someone elses fault. Usually the customer.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 13:17

Culturally, Germans continues to like cash
in contrast to e.g. Sweden who love electronic payments and where cash is often not accepted even for small amounts

May be something to do with living memories of Stasi and experience passed down of the Nazi era
vs
no living memories of dictatorships or oppression

DGRossetti · 24/06/2020 13:19

The extra cost to countries that seriously cut & underfunded these public services e.g. USA, UK is likely to exceed many decades of the extra payments that would have maintained services

The old "save £1 on streetlighting to pay £10 on RTAs" logic. Which - as long as streetlights and RTAs never see each other in a budget, and remain separated by thousands of miles of clear blue water of "deregulation" makes perfect sense.

BigChocFrenzy · 24/06/2020 13:22

"Busy life, farming."

Yep that farm has been in the family for at least 200 years, like several farms, vineyards and businesses in and around our quiet village,
including where I live