Westminstenders: Where are we now?

[RedToothBrush]

Twenty thousand people
Cross Bösebrücke
Fingers are crossed
Just in case
Walking the dead

Where are we now, where are we now?
The moment you know, you know, you know

Just that.

Don't really want to reflect more than that right now.

.

As Bill Gates rightly says
Countries spend billions and billions buying weapons
ready for wars they will probably never fight
they should spend those billions readying to fight diseases instead

NYPD has a budget of $1 billion a year
insane

The extra cost to countries that seriously cut & underfunded these public services e.g. USA, UK is likely to exceed many decades of the extra payments that would have maintained services.

To speak the unspeakable truth what I would like to know is the gain ( if any) to the U.K. and USA. Less elderly and infirm people must be a saving in the medium term compared to say Germany who will have a more constant number of elderly to care for?

Back in February, there was the open admission that we preferred herd immunity by letting 60%-80% of the population to be infected.Cummings was alleged to have admitted the UK Government's position at an event This was subsequently denied but witnesses said he said “herd immunity will protect the economy and if that means some pensioners die, too bad”.

Now the NHS has coped, there are signs that this is still the unspoken strategy. As long as the deaths are flattened to a manageable flow it seems to be ok. Shocking and sort of eugenicsy as that is- what is the financial gain, if any? Are there hidden stats somewhere?

How much does the US, Brazil save by sort of weeding out the weaker people? There must be some way of assessing the stats. but no gov could ever reveal them.

DGR on NEED versus WANT in terms of advertising, if there's one thing lockdown has taught me, it's the difference between the two... The money sitting in the bank account which DH and I are contemplating using to put extra payments on the mortgage is testiment to that. Another friend has actually paid off the balance of their mortgage due to lockdown. We've also said that we want to keep a lot of the habits we've got into over the last couple of months in terms of lifestyle. It seems such a waste and really pointless from where we are now. There is a sense of 'been there, let's do something different now'.

We used to travel all over the show on the average weekend. Odd drink /restaurant here and there. Shopping. Impulse buying. Frittering away money.

Instead we've done a lot more brew it yourself, grow it yourself, cook it yourself, shop locally etc which we've enjoyed just as much if not more. We've tried to spend in places we really like and value more and made conscious decisions to even if its slightly more expensive. I'm glad DH has kicked his coffee habit which at one point was costing a small fortune though. And drinks for work socials. Shopping from wholesalers collectively has saved a lot too. Lots less on petrol too. To the point that I'm now onboard with what DH has been saying for some time about selling both cars and getting one new one.

Until we can go abroad, meet all our friends, socialise properly I genuinely can't see us going back to anywhere near what we were spending before. I suspect we will slip back into old habits but not for a good long while yet. No matter how much is thrown at advertising. I have a wardrobe full of clothes, a house full of 'stuff' and a huge mortgage which is scary and actually we'd like to have a lot smaller so that we are less at risk from the next big economic crunch (DH is extremely employable in a number of fields so unlikely to be out of work long, but what's happened to others focuses the mind).

I would suggest this does pose a major problem if there are major life style trends which are more permanent than wished.

I have read today that the Trafford Centre is at risk of going under. Whilst I do like it there, I also don't like it enough to want to go there and spend money presently. I think it could be in big trouble.

^Culturally, Germans continues to like cash
in contrast to e.g. Sweden who love electronic payments and where cash is often not accepted even for small amounts^

It's fascinating which countries are very card dependent. Iceland is the place I've been where card use has been most widespread. You couldn't go for a wee without one. But Scandinavia in general is very much card driven. Spain which used to be much more cash is king has gone more towards card usage. Due to tipping in the US I can't see it happening there. Friends have commented on how they still have the cash they had in their wallets at the start of lockdown in there. DH and I have tended to use cards more as a rule anyway (I very rarely carry any cash which can be a pain if DH asks if I have any!) but even we have noticed it.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3948375-Westminstenders-How-many-Dead-Cats-Do-You-Get-In-A-Thunderstorm

New thread

RTB
Our household has been significantly negatively impacted by the lockdown
but I agree about changing perceptions about want and need

A fascinating programme on Radio 4 yesterday described Aids as the pandemic that changed attitudes to sex for ever
and Covid will be the pandemic that changes attitudes to socialising for ever

A lot of people will be more financially cautious for many, many years to come
(especially those who actually have money)

Retail is not a good sector to be in for the next few years IMHO

I have read today that the Trafford Centre is at risk of going under. Whilst I do like it there, I also don't like it enough to want to go there and spend money presently. I think it could be in big trouble

In person shopping was declining before C-19. Much as vinyl sales were declining long before CDs were on the market. (A useful litmus test if you want to know if your economics lecturer - or CEO - is a bit dim).

As with Churchills career, things are "complex" and there's no single input that explains the output.

The only thing that is certain, is that trying to kick against the pricks, and resist progress/change/paradigm shifts is a costly and totally fruitless endeavour and just postponing the inevitable. Much as the propping up of British Leyland and the coal industry in the 70s and early 80s was. Complete waste of time, money and lives.

I really can't be arsed, but I am pretty certain there were articles in the 80s about the vinyl revival ... which took 2 generations to happen, and even then is so niche as to be irrelevant.

For a country that seems to wank itself to sleep every night over the memory of WW2, the UK doesn't seem to have actually learned much from it and how it catalysed irreversible social, economic and cultural changes that were simply unpredictable even as it raged.

@lonelyplanetmum vis-a-vis how much do the elderly cost www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/01/ageing-britain-two-fifths-nhs-budget-spent-over-65s#:~:text=Health%20spending%20per%20person%20steeply,2%2C069%2C%20according%20to%20Treasury%20analysis.&text=The%20costs%20pressures%20are%20unlikely%20to%20abate.

Thanks Jesuispoulet that's very interesting. More than two-fifths of national health spending was on people over 65 plus social care on top of that.

Fear of militant vegans ? Hardly any of them here.

BCF, are you anywhere near Bonn?
I ask because I have a certain cousin there...

Nowhere near, math

Most of Germany is not very vegan-friendly
It's only recently in our village that restaurants added a solitary option for the veggies

Even in cities, my Indian vegetatian former colleague reported that wait staff were suggesting chicken, naice ham or fish ....

We have some German vegan/vegetarian friends who like coming to England partly because there is usually much more choice on the menu for them when eating out.

This vegan/veggie discussion reminds me of the time dh and I treated ourselves to a meal in a Michelin starred restaurant in Meribel. We'd been there the year before, but this year we were on holiday with veggie/pescatarian friends.

We were having the tasting menu - 15 courses (by the end we were like the Monty Python Mr Creosote "One more wafer thin mint" sketch ) - but we told them our friends were veggie but would eat fish (NB: I speak French ).

They came along with one course and lifted off the domes with a flourish: duck breasts . When I explained my friends couldn't eat it because they were pescatarian, they said, "Ce n'est pas de la viande, c'est du canard" in genuine confusion

Things have improved in France wrt to vegetarian food.
When I was about 15, I was told in a restaurant that I should just order the ravioli and scrape out the filling.
I used to eat green salad, omelettes and portions of chips a lot when we ate out.

Most Michelin starred chefs probably still can't get their heads around the concept, though...

Many years ago we were staying in a hotel in Brocelliande
and a gang of dreadlocked tie dyed hippies rocked up
and ordered oysters followed by foie gras

still makes me laugh

But I have a vegan friend who ate their way around France on ratatouille and bean salad

Its super easy now to be veggie or even vegan in Paris. Half of my DD's promotion last year seemed to be veggie. Harder outside Paris and still difficult once you venture outside cities.