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Brexit
Original poster

How can remainers get behind Brexit and pull together ?

368 replies

frumpety · 03/02/2020 20:32

What does this mean in practical terms ? What do I need to actually do to achieve pulling together and getting behind Brexit ? Why does it matter if I and the rest of the 48 million don't ?

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 07/02/2020 19:20

In the last week, one of the lovely Polish cleaners at my gym has gone home.
She has various reasons but having helped her improve her English I know that she feels less welcome than she should have done.
Another young Pole has taken the job as Brits think its beneath them.

Original poster
frumpety · 07/02/2020 19:38

The problem with a functioning opposition is that it needs to actually be able to oppose stuff , and I am not sure with a government with an 80 seat majority whether that is physically possible ?
Also if they do oppose anything, will there not be much shrieking about them trying to oppose the will of ( some of ) the people ? and them being called traitors, with accompanying death threats and menaces ?

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 07/02/2020 20:05

frumpety
the job of an effective opposition is to question and challenge
no matter how large the majority, a decent bit of
nit picking and fact checking and bullshit calling
in every sitting of the house, not just PMQ
will help to make people realise that Johnson is a johnson.

The Council elections in May will be a chance for voice
and a good opposition will be able to highlight
that if the Government does not control the country outside Westminster
it is not "of" and "for" the people

Original poster
frumpety · 07/02/2020 20:14

I do appreciate that ListeningQuietly but can they prevent anything going through the house for the next four years ? Sure they can nit pick, fact check and bullshit call, but how effective is that when it comes down to it ?
I guess if the Conservatives go all 'eat their own young' again then there is the chance that in a couple of years, some of the MP's might start to consider their futures enough to vote against the government, but what harm will have already been done ?

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 07/02/2020 20:34

frumpety
If you really think Johnson's government will last the full 5 years I am surprised.

TBH it comes down to comparing the battles and the war
a party with a majority of 80 can win each battle
but if properly challenged every step of the way
lose the war

Corbyn has been an utterly shit leader of the opposition
hopefully his replacement will do the job properly
and win the war

jasjas1973 · 07/02/2020 20:34

If the opposition can affect public opinion, then Johnson may change track.
He has made significant election promises, not just to the new won former Labour seats but on social care, equality, nursing and GP numbers....

Not to mention brexit - he has been in for 50 days and so far has announced very little, even the Huawei decision is still up for change.

But yes with a 80 seat majority, he could do as he pleases, regardless of public opinion, can't see any real backbench rebellions in his first term.

Arseaboutdarkly · 07/02/2020 20:40

I'm expecting Starmer to be a lot more effective in taking apart the lies and bullshit of the government but it depends how many people will bother to pay attention as to whether it's 'effective' or not

I don't agree that Corbyn has been utterly shit but I am hoping that Starmer will be better

Peregrina · 07/02/2020 20:53

But yes with a 80 seat majority, he could do as he pleases, regardless of public opinion, can't see any real backbench rebellions in his first term.

I don't know here - he's got his old, moneyed South East Tories, very much with a down on the public sector, and the new Red Wall Tories who will want to see investment in local facilities and won't want to wait years until a private investor is found to stump up. So he has potential conflicts.

Added to which, his party mostly want a hard No Deal, but much of Industry is against this. So at best he has a difficult balancing act.
I am just waiting for the car firms to say No Deal and we are Off.

Original poster
frumpety · 07/02/2020 20:54

He has made significant election promises, not just to the new won former Labour seats but on social care, equality, nursing and GP numbers....

That all seems like ages ago now, do you think that people remember all those promises Jas ?

OP posts:
Peregrina · 07/02/2020 21:00

I think we have to keep reminding him about the 50,000 nurses and 40 new hospitals, which are hard numbers. The others are vague and can and probably will be brushed aside.

jasjas1973 · 07/02/2020 21:09

Certain ones yes...Adult social care, 40 new hospitals, nurse and GP numbers, these are things that affect people in the daily lives, that they can see and not be influenced by the Sun and Mail etc

At the next GE, a labour leader, without Corbyn's historical baggage, won't be such an easy target for the MSM (though they'll make things up, which many people will believe) so hopefully can hold the tories to account.

Personally, i think the Cons are in for 2 terms.

ContinuityError · 07/02/2020 21:15

I am just waiting for the car firms to say No Deal and we are Off.

If Johnson et al rush a Japan trade deal with zero tariffs for car imports then it could well be sayonara to UK Japanese car manufacturing.

Peregrina · 07/02/2020 21:26

Bear in mind, I don't want that to happen to the car firms, having friends and acquaintances who work at the Mini factory in Oxford, which is of course, German.

Some, I imagine would get redundancy; for the others, I would predict lean times.

ContinuityError · 07/02/2020 22:04

But ... Brexit? Freedom? Sovereignty? Take Back Control?

This is what Sunderland voted for!!!

It’s a right bastard for those car workers that voted Remain, but apparently this is what the UK wants.

KenDodd · 07/02/2020 22:13

I think we have to keep reminding him about the 50,000 nurses and 40 new hospitals, which are hard numbers. The others are vague and can and probably will be brushed aside.

Thing is, BJ lies, he'll just lie and say it's been done and that'll be the end of it. We still haven't even seen the Russia report, nobody seems to care. BJ will just get away with stuff.

Peregrina · 07/02/2020 22:14

In Oxford we did vote Remain, so it would be galling, but I would expect people here to weather the storm better.

Peregrina · 07/02/2020 22:20

Yep BJ lies but someone must have some YouTube footage of what he says.

The same tactic is tried with Leavers and Farage - he never extolled the Norway situation. A two second google search with the links dutifully posted soon gives the lie to that.

Which is why I keep reminding the Leavers about the easiest deals in history, done in an afternoon, we hold all the cards when they try to tell us that no one said it would be easy.

KenDodd · 08/02/2020 09:14

Yep BJ lies but someone must have some YouTube footage of what he says.

There's loads of YouTube footage already, it doesn't make any difference, that's the most frustrating thing. He stood infront of a bus with a great big lie on it. He lied about Turkey joining the EU the lied about nurses, he even lied, in front of the press saying "there's no press here". He can't be held to account on his lies and promises because the public don't seem to care.

I do wonder why Leave voters aren't furious. The promises made about how great Brexit will be are all gone, the Brexit we're getting bears absolutely no resemblance to the one promised. BJ has cottoned on to this, he know he can lie with impunity and won't be punished for it. I don't know how we can tackle this.

MysteryTripAgain · 08/02/2020 09:50

@kendodd

You keep forgetting why leave voted remain.

National pride (2 fingers to the EU)

Immigration (its our country go away)

MysteryTripAgain · 08/02/2020 09:50

Correction

Why people voted leave

Jason118 · 08/02/2020 09:53

Or to paraphrase 'racism'

MysteryTripAgain · 08/02/2020 10:45

@jasjas1973

Call or whatever you wish. People are entitled to vote however they wish.

Your suggestion that people should be tested before they are allowed to vote will never catch on. Likewise your interpretation democracy;

17.4 million leavers being imprisoned sounds good

Will not catch on either.

Likewise your view that all leavers are stupid is the ultimate in arrogance.

Arseaboutdarkly · 08/02/2020 10:47

You keep forgetting why leave voted leave.
National pride (2 fingers to the EU)
Immigration (its our country go away

So that's a revision, since leavers previously said there was a whole list of reasons for the vote including freedom of judiciary and parliament, fishing and farming regs more beneficial to the UK and great new deals with other countries.

MysteryTripAgain · 08/02/2020 10:55

since leavers previously said there was a whole list of reasons for the vote including freedom of judiciary and parliament, fishing and farming regs more beneficial to the UK and great new deals with other countries

Leave campaign listed those reasons, but was that the reasons people voted leave? Remember there were no caveats on the ballot paper saying that the choice to leave or remain must only be based on the campaigns.

The tabloids blamed everything on immigration in the run up to the referendum. Mrs Thatcher stormed the 1983 election after UK won the Falklands war.

Tanith · 08/02/2020 11:01

People didn’t vote for Boris; they voted against Corbyn or they didn’t vote at all.

Of course, the Conservatives pull this smearing the opposition tactic every election. Every so often, people cotton on to it.