How can remainers get behind Brexit and pull together ?

[frumpety]

What does this mean in practical terms ? What do I need to actually do to achieve pulling together and getting behind Brexit ? Why does it matter if I and the rest of the 48 million don't ?

What won't children be able to do that they could do when we were in?

• Move to the EU for work without a work permit/visa
• Travel to the EU to provide services, such as playing a concert in Barcelona with their band, or servicing a machine in Stuttgart for their employer
• Buy a second home in Spain and live there all winter
• Retire to the EU with healthcare rights etc.

Not to mention that even some jobs being advertised in the U.K. are now demanding that applicants have the unrestricted right to work in the EU (ie hold an EU passport).

Move to the EU for work without a work permit/visa

I worked in Bulgaria before it was an EU member. Then later again after it had become an EU member. Formalities and paperwork to start work took 3 months when Bulgaria was a EU member, but less than one month when it was not an EU member.

How many of the UK's 70 million population want to work in the EU?

Travel to the EU to provide services, such as playing a concert in Barcelona with their band

Get on online tourist Visa

or servicing a machine in Stuttgart for their employer

Get a business Visa

Buy a second home in Spain and live there all winter

Only available to those who are well enough off to buy second homes

Retire to the EU with healthcare rights etc

How many of the UK's 70 million want to retire in the EU?

Not to mention that even some jobs being advertised in the U.K. are now demanding that applicants have the unrestricted right to work in the EU (ie hold an EU passport)

That is because recruiters and employers have not amended the wording for positions in the UK since UK left the EU (which is less than 4 days ago with a weekend in between.

Take a look on any Expat Job Website and that has been standard wording for jobs in the UK/EU for long time

Get on online tourist Visa

This person is recommending that people break the law.

You can't work on a tourist visa. That this should need saying in 2020 speaks to the bad faith and/of complete lack of knowledge of the Brexit spammers.

Shut up and think of England. Don't think of Northern Ireland! Or Scotland!

What does this mean in practical terms ? What do I need to actually do to achieve pulling together and getting behind Brexit ? Why does it matter if I and the rest of the 48 million don't ?

In practical terms both leave and remain votes must now watch and observe. It is the task of government to implment the vote, not the voters.

For example, after police have charged someone with a crime it is then the task of prosecutors to prove the police suspicions that led to the person being charged. Judges wil direct Jury on points of law. Police will have little input other than possibly being called as witnesses.

Negotiations for trade deals cannot commence until after UK had left the EU which is less than two working days ago. This was a major failure of Article 50 as it means that UK businesses who export to the EU and those EU businesses who export to the UK can be in limbo for years. As EU exports more to the UK than it buys from the UK, the EU suffers more.

Brexit needs to be given sufficient time to take effect. Some have suggested bewteen 10 and 20 years. JRM is well known for saying that full benefits may not be realized until 50 years have passed.

Now that Brexit has happened it will be possible to look at actual historical post Brexit data. If in 10 to 20 years time there is evidence of declining growth, increasing unemployment, etc., then remain supporters can say;

does the available evidence not suggest that Brexit is not working for the UK and a rethink is required

Those who previously supported leave can then decide for themselves whether or not Brexit was a good or a bad decision.

If, however, remain supporters say:

"look how stupid you were, we told you so"

then I as a leave supporter will vote leave every time in objection to arrogance. I know many who voted remain, but never call them stupid or suggest that am a superior whose opinion is law of the Universe and all those who are inferior shall think the same was as myself as I know better.

This person is recommending that people break the law

No they are not. Nothing illegal about playing in a band on a tourist Visa, unless it is being done for reward in which case a business Visa is required.

You can't work on a tourist visa

Never said people could. Hence the statement get a business Visa to service machines for their employer

That this should need saying in 2020 speaks to the bad faith and/of complete lack of knowledge of the Brexit spammers

More accurate to say you never read the post.

Once we have the same trade, freedom of movement, benefits, assurances on environment, standards, food quality and to drop this terrible nationalist rhetoric...we might start to come round.

It is disingenuous way to move the narrative from it being the fault of the EU to the fault of those who didn't vote for the clusterfuck

^ It's this in a nutshell! And it's clever. Bojo and his cronies are already preparing the ground to start blaming the EU too by using the rhetoric via Raab about "Brussels already trying to move the goalposts" which is a load of crap, because the EU's position has been transparent and unchanging since day one and the UK government had already knowingly signed up to many of these goalposts in the political agreement.

Also, as Ken Clarke has pointed out, Bojo is continuing to surround himself by Cummings and his team who may know how to campaign, but do they know how to govern? Bojo's plans to manage important issues such as social care are sketchy or non-existent. He doesn't have a lot of spare Treasury cash to work with, and he has massively over-promised with visions of sunny uplands etc. The future does not look bright ... .

For me it means a little bit of acceptance, but also to hold our politicians to account for every decision they've made and every lie they painted on the side of a bus.

To campaign for changes to our electoral system and the electoral commission to make sure we never have such a corrupt referendum held again. And to campaign relentlessly to rejoin when people have been persuaded that BJ and JRM have done this all to make themselves richer and don't mind the fact that the rest of the population are poorer.

Hmm, maybe I've not quite managed acceptance and pulling together yet...

In practical terms both leave and remain votes must now watch and observe. It is the task of government to implment the vote, not the voters.

For example, after police have charged someone with a crime it is then the task of prosecutors to prove the police suspicions that led to the person being charged.

Loving the fact that you’re comparing the process after Brexit with what happens after a crime’s been committed

And to campaign relentlessly to rejoin when people have been persuaded that BJ and JRM have done this all to make themselves richer and don't mind the fact that the rest of the population are poorer

This approach can only be applied after there is evidence that people are poorer solely as a result of Brexit, but not since less than two working days have passed since the UK left the EU.

I worked in Bulgaria before it was a member of the EU

Key phrase before it was a member of the EU.

Anyway, what are the benefits to me and my children?

As far as I can see, the next 10 years at least will be a shit show so that's messed up my retirement and the beginning of my children's working lives.

So no I won't be getting behind it.

Loving the fact that you’re comparing the process after Brexit with what happens after a crime’s been committed

If the person who was charged is found not guilty then there was no crime committed.

Way to miss the comedy value of your post, mystery.

then I ass a leave supporter will vote leave every time in objection to arrogance

You do know this is really arrogant don't you?
It also puts you in line for a Darwin award, to continue voting for your own demise despite evidence to the contrary, because you won't like being told you are wrong, even if all the evidence shows you are wrong.

sheesh.

If the person who was charged is found not guilty then there was no crime committed

No - a crime can still have been committed. If someone burgled your house, and I was found not guilty, the crime would still have taken place.
I may have even still committed the crime.

Key phrase before it was a member of the EU

Yes. When not a member the Residence Permits were more easy to obtain.

As far as I can see, the next 10 years at least will be a shit show so that's messed up my retirement and the beginning of my children's working lives

The 10 years after WWI and WWII were likely bad for people too, but people got on with their lives as they had to. Whining about the short term effects of change that majorities have voted for in pointless.

Labour supporters had to endure 18 years of Conservatives from 1979 to 1997. Likewise Cons had to ensure 13 years of Labour from 1997 to 2010. And labour will have to endure Cons from 2010 to possibly 2024 or beyond.

because you won't like being told you are wrong, even if all the evidence shows you are wrong

How it is told is key. I have never had time for;

I know better or I told you so comments, but always prepared to look at evidence (I work in Arbitration) objectively when presented objectively.

Yes, mystery, it’s exactly the same as Labour supporters having to live with a Conservative government until the next election because we can just wait until there’s another vote on membership of the EU and .. on, no wait.

You are now comparing Brexit to ww2 and ww2? Honestly, you are scraping the barrel now.

We chose to do this to OURSELVES. Or rather some people chose to do this to the other people in the country.

It does make it simple though. I'm a conscientious objector.

The problem you're going to have is that the number of conscientious objectors is a lot larger than in ww2.

No - a crime can still have been committed

But not by the perosn found not guilty

If someone burgled your house, and I was found not guilty, the crime would still have taken place

But not committed by you

I may have even still committed the crime

Possible as there are case of incorrect aquittals and convictions all the time. A guy was in fail for several years for the murder of Jill Dando, but was later proved innocent.

The woman who was convicted for killing her children in Australia (the Dingo case) was later found innocent.

The UK work on the principle of innocent until proven guilty. Rightly so otherwise people could be imprisoned, or even executed, on the basis of;

You are guilty because I say so and know better

We chose to do this to OURSELVES. Or rather some people chose to do this to the other people in the country

It is called being allowed to vote how you choose. If afterwards people think they voted the wrong way they can change their minds.

The 10 years after WWI and WWII were likely bad for people too, but people got on with their lives as they had to.

What an idiotic argument. Unless they die, people have no choice but to get on with their lives. That doesn't turn a steaming pile of shit into chocolate fudge cake. People got on with their lives during the great depression, the world wars, the Spanish Flue etc etc etc but those periods were no less grim just because people had to get on with things.

Yes, mystery, it’s exactly the same as Labour supporters having to live with a Conservative government until the next election because we can just wait until there’s another vote on membership of the EU and .. on, no wait

Not sure what point is being made? Parties can campaign for a rejoin before the next election if they wish and people can vote for such parties if they wish.