How can remainers get behind Brexit and pull together ?

[frumpety]

What does this mean in practical terms ? What do I need to actually do to achieve pulling together and getting behind Brexit ? Why does it matter if I and the rest of the 48 million don't ?

Yes, that's sort of the problem.

Leavers chose to take a risk, for us all not only themselves. If you lose all your money on a horse it's your fault for placing the bet in the first place not the horses fault for not running a good enough race. Brexit is just one massive bet only it's not just those who chose to gamble who will lose their stake if it doesn't come in, it's all of us. I won't be cheering on the horse.

@Sunshinegirl82

Almost 13 million didn’t vote at all. What box do they belong?

Leavers chose to take a risk, for us all not only themselves

Because they were entitled to choose.

I'm entitled to walk into a bookies and bet my house on a horse. Doesn't mean I should. Or that I should expect to be supported by those who told me it wasn't a good idea.

Difference is that when some wins on a horse race they keep the winnings for themselves. No need to share with those that made a different bet.

That can’t happen with Brexit. If UK is better off then everyone gains. The rewards would not be allocated to only those who voted leave.

And if it's worse off then everyone loses. I don't think that risk should have been taken (because the potential rewards are not worth the risk of the potential losses) and I'll remain of that opinion even if the risk pays off.

I won't support those who chose to take that risk.

@Sunshinegirl82

There’s no such thing as risk free gain. If there was everyone on the planet would be rich.

Brexit is fairly risk-free for those who only choose to spend part of the year living in the UK though.

But the aim here is to fill the thread with bullshit so the truth is fairly irrelevant

I do not consider the potential gains available to us as a result of Brexit to be worth the risk of the potential losses.

In my view the gamble is misguided and should never have been made. I will remain of that view regardless of its outcome and I will not support it.

Brexit is fairly risk-free for those who only choose to spend part of the year living in the UK though.

Does that include people not paying UK tax and offshoring their savings?

Worth reading..

www.thenational.scot/news/17537879.has-no-one-noticed-the-uk-national-debt-has-topped-2-trillion/?ref=twtrec

'In 1987 the national debt was 38% of GDP, in 1997 it was 41%, in 2007 it was 37% and by 2017 it had rapidly risen to 83%

Brexit could also place a greater burden of debt upon future generations as economic activity slows – assuming that Brexit causes an economic slowdown. One concern is that various predictions from the Bank of England to economic advisors to the government have stated a hard Brexit could see GDP fall by as much as 9%. This would have a dramatic effect on tax receipts, whilst increasing expenditure such as benefits. Another concern is that younger people may well be forced into leaving the UK, thereby increasing the burden upon everyone else'

So I agree... Leavers took a risk I wanted no part of.

That can’t happen with Brexit. If UK is better off then everyone gains.

If the UK is better off, the already rich will make sure that most of the spoils go to them.

But the aim here is to fill the thread with bullshit so the truth is fairly irrelevant

Or rather, to fill the thread with wankery 🍆💦 and squirrels 🐿

And again, no actual advance on what pulling together actually means in practical terms except "wait for a couple of decades," "emote positively," "look at squirrels," "...," "...,"

Which ultimately (in those practical terms, remember them?) means "STFU" by Winners who are mostly too cowardly to actually say what they really mean.

I think I had more respect for the Leaver who used to post (sometimes whole threads) urging the silencing of Remainer viewpoints or closing down UnBeLeaving television channels. At least she had that balls-out bravery to say what she really wanted to do to heretics. None of this online version of sidling slyly from one train carriage to another, rubbing one's crotch on commuters and then acting like they're the real victim, when it turns out people don't appreciate getting 💦on their coats.

I do not consider the potential gains available to us as a result of Brexit to be worth the risk of the potential losses

That makes the assumption that leave vote based solely on economic gains. Far from it I think.

Impossible to know why each of the 17.4 million chose to vote leave. However, if asked to list in order what the most common reasons were it would be:

Immigration

Tabloids blamed everything on immigration in the run up to the referendum. I would not say the entire UK is racist, but would say it’s a larger % of the population than some think

National Pride

Rule Britannia. Germany were defeated in WWI and WWII. Leaving the EU (which is lead by Germany) is another two fingers to Germany Argentina were defeated in 1982.

EU commissioners not elected

When did anyone get the opportunity to vote for Barnier?

UK gives more money to EU than it gets back

UK has trade deficit with EU

Correct

UK has trade surplus with non EU

Correct. So let’s expand trade in non EU. To do that UK must leave the EU

I make no assumptions about why leave voters voted as they did.

I do not consider the potential benefits of Brexit to outweigh the potential losses. Accordingly I consider the gamble to be misguided and I do not support it regardless of outcome.

If the UK is better off, the already rich will make sure that most of the spoils go to them

If government doesn’t use the gains (assuming they materialise, then voters can get rid of them by voting them out.

If there are no gains then voters can vote to rejoin.

This is called 'Teaching your Grandmother to suck eggs'. Apart from the thorny problem of how Germany always managed to do much more trade with the rest of the world than the UK and is still in the EU and not planning to leave any time soon.

Oh and who voted for our Civil Servants, or Dominic Cummings? Not to mention the people who were emphatically voted out like Zak Goldsmith. I think we should be told!

Germany always managed to do much more trade with the rest of the world than the UK and is still in the EU and not planning to leave any time soon

Germany has the largest trade surplus in the World. Even larger economies like China and Japan have smaller trade surplus. US has the largest trade deficit.

This is why, China, Japan and US want the EU to break up. Topple the EU first and then later impose tariffs on German imports to encourage domestic demand.

That does not answer my question.

Oh and who voted for our Civil Servants, or Dominic Cummings?

Nobody

I voted Remain. I would probably vote Remain/Rejoin if there were ever another referendum. But we are where we are. I don't understand why anyone would now want the country to fail because it's taken this direction - why? The moral triumph of having one's Cassandra predictions proved right? Pyrrhic victory. Sanctimony. Surely it is better to think of ways - and there will be ways - we can turn as much of it to advantage as possible?

I don't understand why anyone would now want the country to fail because it's taken this direction - why?

Oh god, I don't want the country to fail, I want this to be a resounding success because of my children and my children's children. But at this moment in time I do not have a good feeling that it will be. If it is, I am quite prepared to be shouted at 'I told you so' and I will cover myself in sackcloth and ashes. However, I think that day is decades away should it ever come and I'll be pushing daisies by then.

Surely it is better to think of ways - and there will be ways - we can turn as much of it to advantage as possible?

That would be lovely wouldn't it , if the population of the UK could all sit down together and do some brainstorming on how we are going to turn Brexit into a advantageous thing for all of us. Do you have any ideas to start us off WhatKatyDidNot ?

As far as I'm concerned Brexit is one big fail regardless of any potential outcomes m, as it has removed my EU citizenship and my rights. Of course I want the best possible outcome for the UK, but it's still a massive fail in my eyes and always will be.