To feel so fucking depressed and angry about brexit?

[ssd]

I'm Scottish. I voted to remain. It feels like nothing I vote for matters. I despise Farage and Johnstone. I despise the call for sovereignty certain parts of England still believe in. I despise of the right wing media.

I really feel this country is fucked, unless you have money behind you and beside you.

Lexi,

If you research you and anyone else will reach the tip of the iceberg when it comes to eu crime, corruption, rigging, back handers...

Billions are lost to corruption and that's a Conservative estimate.
It's impossible to police or get a grip on such vast network of economies, countries, money pits. I don't trust any of them and Blair etc are the worst.

Many rich fat fingers in trillions of pounds worth of pies.

But wait... Jcm dad... His dad once wrote a book about disaster economics so actually... Screw the thousands of berocrats on the eu gravey train let's focus on jrm via his dad

Since the Leave vote wages have finally been going up. That's a good thing and it's one reason why it's hard to sell the benefits of EU membership.

Meanwhile..

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-no-deal-fruit-picking-apples-national-farmers-union-eu-workers-harvest-a9163781.html

www.theguardian.com/society/2019/may/08/nhs-nursing-crisis-worsened-by-brexit-exodus

No doubt something similar will be in the remainer manifestos - I shall look out for it!

I'm sure its been mentioned to you before but the UK government can control immigration from inside the EU, it has choosen not to. We've had nine years of Tory government.

Rubbish about paying foreign workers less. Dp is a self employed gardener. He makes a decent living most of the year but the next 2-3 months are traditionally not good for him particularly if the weather's bad. He decided to get a second job as a driver for a well known parcel delivery company over the fallow period. As he has a van, they asked him to transport some of the bigger parcels. On thursday he worked from 11 to 4 delivering parcels over a wide area of north west greater manchester. He earned precisely £12 but drove 40 odd miles. Admittedly most have fairly local delivery schedules so one day he delivered 61 parcels and earned £36 which took from 9 til 4. I appreciate it's not a highly skilled job but still...I just don't understand how ordinary people can survive on these wages permanently and has nothing to do with an influx of foreign workers. Employers just get away with it - all his fellow delivery drivers were classed as self employed and they weren't even paid for sorting the parcels and stacking them in the van.

Exactly. Foreign workers are getting blamed for low wages but its the companies who get away with paying as little as possible who are to blame.

At least you have a way out of this.

I would once have been so sad about Scottish independence and the break up of the UK.

But honestly now I think good luck to you. I’ll be sad to see you go but at least you can escape this shitshow.

It does mean we will never be free of the Torys but that’s the fault of the idiots who keep voting for them.

Katherine!

Low skills jobs are the very market that's been flooded I don't think think I've had a single brit too the door whose delivered something in years?!
My sil is polish and I know very well the levels of deprivation the poles and all Eastern Europeans endured under communism. She's been here for over 30 years and says to me '' your government is stupid, you've let the whole of Poland come to to the UK and out of 5 million 3 might be amazing but 2 million not amazing is big numbers '

The level of deprivation these people have had to endure, means living in unsavoury hmos on a shoe string, literally mattresses on every floor, one goes to bed, one works and so on is nothing to them. It's so worth it because they will buy so much more at home.

But, its not great for the locals who need un skilled work to pay mortgages and bills abs feed families, esp through a bloody credit crunch!
Not so good for the social fabric when large people are crammed into small houses suddenly, not great with the inevitable fighting and problems and not great for anywhere when large numbers of people are suddenly transported into one place, that they have no particular emotional or political ties too, no social reasons to try and make friends or be friendly even.

It's caused impact. We know a and e shot up because new arrivals didn't want or didn't know how to register with doctors.. So they went to a and e for more minor stuff.
The detail of the impacts is mind boggling.

I don't know any racists thankfully, my own circle is from ee, sil polish, always had her family and fiends over, and wider family covers most eu nations, marriages into Spain, Italy, Germany, Netherlands and rest of world etc. No one is a little englander or hasn't lived travelled everywhere!

It's bloody volume. You cannot suddenly absorb millions of people successfully anywhere!! Certainly not without proper planning, budgets, head counts etc!

Volume!!

Etc.

Rubbish about paying foreign workers less.

Clearly not -
Exposed: European trucking’s systemic exploitation of workers

"The ITF is working with its unions in Europe to expose the hidden shame of Europe’s road transport industry. Drivers from Eastern Europe are brought to Western Europe to drive, they receive an hourly wage as low as EUR1.70, they have to sleep in the cab of the truck for up to eight months at a time, they wash and cook in car parks, they have limited access to toilet facilities, and are given fake papers to evade authorities. All the while they transport goods for some of the most successful and profitable multi-national companies in the world."

www.itfglobal.org/en/sector/road-transport/european-trucking-exploitation-of-workers

verygenuine

Perhaps these locals you speak of could train as nurses and fill the shortfall. Or if they still prefer unskilled work move 100s of miles to a rural area and pick fruit.

Really, even before Brexit raised its head, the UK was fkd with austerity methods that impacted those least able to bear it.

I suppose post Brexit with our own sovereignty, and control of our borders (that didn't happen re EU Free Movement anyway), and trade deals in a week, all will be magnificent once again.

Of course it will.

www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/jeremy-corbyn/news/93495/jeremy-corbyn-brexit-will-stop-cheap
Jeremy Corbyn: Brexit will stop cheap foreign labour undercutting British workers’ pay

I can't see how people can still shoe horn this into..

Let's blame minorities, its classic?
It's been admitted by every party that UK had too many people coming too soon..
Who blamed the people? Who wouldn't go anywhere you could get all that?
Of course it's UK gov fault, subsequent government, as well as businesses slating and being disgustingly racist to UK workers.. Whilst paying very low wages no one here with UK bills could pay for??

I've not seen a single poster here or ever on here actually blame any immigrant for wanting to better their lives.
Of course, we don't know why Blair did what he did.

Was it just a huge mis calculation? Was it too increase votes for Labour?

Was it some larger plan?
Why?
We don't know but what we have learned is, whilst being politically tied to the UK, we cannot trust any government to truly act in our best interests.
And our UK government should put us, their citizens first.
Blair did not do this.

Whilst being politically tied to the eu

People have been whinging about immigration long before EU membership. Minorities have always been a convienant scapegoat for bad domestic policies.

We don't know but what we have learned is, whilst being politically tied to the UK, we cannot trust any government to truly act in our best interests.

Yeah, I can't wait for the NHS to be sold off ot the US That should benefit the average Brit.

you can't be angry at people who exercised their democratic right to vote differently to you

Why not? Yes, voting is a democratic right, but rights come with responsibilities. Anyone who voted Leave without bothering to research issues such as the Irish border first need to accept the consequences of their actions.

And our UK government should put us, their citizens first.
Blair did not do this.

And neither will Johnson, as is clear to anyone who wants to see. It will be Johnson first, Tory party/Russian 'benefactors'/Trump/any bent bastard that will do a deal - second. And the citizens in the shit.

How does increasing population with very poor people, help with austerity and credit crunch?

Hey UK poor, we know things are limited and shit at the bottom... So... We will lift all restrictions on extremely poor countries across the eu and allow them to come here? Unskilled workers, watch out.. Someone coming who will work for at least half of what you will!!

Schools watch out... Stretched ta? Here are 20 children who can't speak a word of English!. Hospitals with no midwifes to cover existing births.. Here are 100 more pregnant ladies for you to deal with and no increase in mw or funding!

This really helps the poor?! No extra funding? No extra staff?

And then people, on here at least, say..

'' TURKEYS voting for Xmas, turkeys voting for Xmas.. ''

Explain 'at' these people what leaving the eu means. And people went and interviewed these people on ref night bewildered... '' but why... Why did you vote leave? Didn't you know your area has had eu money ploughed into it? '

Cue wry laugh...' 'eu money? Paid for a fancy concert hall we can't afford to visit and have no interest in visiting, paid for with Our money... Re branded and stamped and called eu money... Whilst we can't get jobs, can't work, can't survive then get called lazy..my daughter is not doing well at school but the ta has 5 kids who can't speak English to deal with... That's why we voted leave '' etc etc.

I don't live in poor area, but my street has huge mix of said hmos I've seen it and lived it! We have unofficial hmo as well as million pound houses and I've seen some of this.

I don't know how insulated some posters could be not to understand some of these issues??

Arse, without the lure of putting the eu project first we certainly have more chance for any future government.

Valanice and how do you or any remainer square their conscious with the flourishing modern day slavery due to open borders?

Vulnerable people, women and children trafficked all over the eu for exploitation??

Or the gun running etc etc ext.

Sorry VerygenuineQuestions but that's not going to happen with any Tory government, you know it and I know it.

Areas with low immigration generally vote leave so this idea of migrants of taking jobs and housing is nonsense.

Migrants largely go to cities, which generally voted remain.

I’m just annoyed the labour government suddenly decided to go all communist at a time when they could have stopped Brexit. Talk about selling his country down the swan to fro his own agenda. Moderates won’t vote labour and they won’t vote Lib Dem either as they are scared it will allow labour to take power.

I have had to let go of the anger-about politics in general, short-termism, divide and rule, you name it. I can’t live like that.

Brexit is a religion
it can never become reality
and thus it will never satisfy anybody

those in favour of it cannot agree on what form it should take
compare the 2016 election statements with the 2019

those against it will never forgive the loss of opportunity

Brexit will become the new Guy Fawkes
causing division and mythology or the next 300 years
as the axis of world power moves further and further away from the UK

Areas with low immigration generally vote leave so this idea of migrants of taking jobs and housing is nonsense
I disagree. I think they’ve seen the impact immigration has had on other areas and are keen for their area not to go the same way. I know a number of people who’ve moved further north seeking areas with lower immigration.