Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Brexit

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

To feel so fucking depressed and angry about brexit?

357 replies

ssd · 11/11/2019 19:03

I'm Scottish. I voted to remain. It feels like nothing I vote for matters. I despise Farage and Johnstone. I despise the call for sovereignty certain parts of England still believe in. I despise of the right wing media.

I really feel this country is fucked, unless you have money behind you and beside you.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Outsomnia · 12/11/2019 21:58

The immigration issue is moot. If Brexit happens the numbers of non EU will rise. As is happening right now with visas required for those outside EU. But it ain't an easy thing for them either as it is very costly and also quite difficult to enter UK anyway.

Bye bye our lovely EU friends. So sad and isolasationist. But here we are.

Songsofexperience · 12/11/2019 21:59

It's bloody volume. You cannot suddenly absorb millions of people successfully anywhere!! Certainly not without proper planning, budgets, head counts etc!

Planning and more regulations to reign in rogue employers are the opposite of what will happen under a Tory brexit.
Volume isn't intrinsically the issue, and anyway EU migration is already being replaced by migration from the rest of the world.

Doubletrouble99 · 12/11/2019 22:02

Ghost - You clearly live in a city in the south and have no idea about the amount of rural immigration in many parts of the UK. Just think of any place with a high need for low skills like picking fruit and veg. prepping in factories and packing. What about all the places with massive warehouses owned by the likes of Amazon or Sports Direct. Have you no idea how this type of retailing has completely changed the completion of so many places all around the UK. Not far from me - in Scotland there has been a problem with people living in tents in the woods and shrubland around the big distribution warehouses.
There was a big piece done about Sports Direct in I think Nottinghamshire, where you could only get a job there if you spoke Polish and that people were being recruited directly from Poland. This is the place where they were not allowed to take a loo break without losing pay.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 12/11/2019 22:05

I disagree. I think they’ve seen the impact immigration has had on other areas and are keen for their area not to go the same way.

but if areas of higher immigration voted remain then surely thats an endorsement of immigration?

I know a number of people who’ve moved further north seeking areas with lower immigration.

Charming.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 12/11/2019 22:08

Double

I don't live in the South, no. What happens in distribution warehouses and in retail is the reposibility of those companies and their owners.

If certain employers have a bad reputation wrt to employment practices then the company can actively change them.

This is the place where they were not allowed to take a loo break without losing pay.

This is an argument about employment practice not the nationality of the workers.

Peregrina · 12/11/2019 22:33

This is an argument about employment practice not the nationality of the workers.

The Sports Direct Warehouse is in Denis Skinner's constituency. This was traditionally a mining area and he himself was a miner before going into Parliament. Remember the Miner's strikes - how many people were against them at the time? Yet people combined into Trades Unions to fight for basic rights. Which they will need to do again, if the Tories get their way and have a bonfire of workers rights.

TiceCream · 12/11/2019 22:39

but if areas of higher immigration voted remain then surely thats an endorsement of immigration?
Or maybe there are a lot of immigrant voters there who are bound to think it’s a good thing?

If Brexit happens the numbers of non EU will rise
I don’t think the concern was ever about Western people migrating from Europe. It was about large numbers of migrants arriving via Greece and Italy etc, not being stopped and potentially coming here via Schengen (if they got EU passports) or by a forced quota.

Peregrina · 12/11/2019 23:00

How would they come here via Schengen since we are not in it?

AnnaFiveTowns · 12/11/2019 23:07

Yanbu. As soon as the kids are out of college we'll be selling everything and moving abroad. I'll never forgive the Little Englanders for this shit.

Doubletrouble99 · 12/11/2019 23:38

What are you talking about Ghost 'If certain employers have a bad reputation wrt employment practices then the company can change them' - The employer is the company!! The point about the bad practices and the no loo breaks had everything to do with the fact that the employees can from another poorer country. They didn't speak much English, they don't know what the rules and regulations are in the UK. They are prepared to put up with it in any case as they feel they are being comparatively well paid compared to back home.
Yes Peregrina the warehouse this happened in was in an ex mining area which is traditionally heavily unionised. So the locals are hardly going to put up with the type of treatment metered out to the Eastern Europeans who worked there. This no jobs for locals.
Again the same old argument about high immigration areas voting to remain. Well of course parts of London for instance have always had migration so any people living there could well be 1st or 2nd generation migrants and could more than likely have the right to vote and would vote remain.

Elloello · 13/11/2019 00:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Elloello · 13/11/2019 00:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Danetobe · 13/11/2019 05:16

Brexit won't change immigration levels directly. If businesses want workers the gov will let people come. Always have, always will.

However, we a faltering economy there will certainly be less money around to provide extra infrastructure. So it's going to get shitter, or taxes will have to rise.

For those hankering after fewer people, be careful what you wish for. A falling population does not mean prosperity. For those hankering after 'control', that's not gonna happen, the shit storm will continue long into the future.

Unusualusernames · 13/11/2019 05:19

I feel the same x

lonelyplanetmum · 13/11/2019 05:51

Brexit won't change immigration levels directly. If businesses want workers the gov will let people come. Always have, always will.

This is so true. The levels are needed so won't change.

However the nationalities of new arrivals will change. Most commentators suggest India is still the most likely source of new arrivals. I have certainly noticed more Germans and Poles leaving DDs ( London) school- and more arrivals from India and interestingly a couple of families from the US.

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/staggers/2019/05/when-it-comes-immigration-uk-already-post-brexit-era

Namechanged1010 · 13/11/2019 06:06

Wherever immigrants come from, we cannot keep on taking in 1 million people every 3 years. The country just cannot cope with it whoever business needs are. This is because most migrants want to head more to the midlands and southern areas and the south is lacked.

Infrastructure cannot cope. The schools are packed and kids are now travelling a lot further as opposed to their local school. Doctors appointments.....some taking 4 weeks if lucky and some doctors refusing to give appointments and you have to ring on the day

Oh...and of course comrade Corbyn things that continuing unrestricted immigration is a good idea. Only to improve votes for him I suspect.

Immigration should be in a strict Aussie style points system. If you do not meet their criteria which is strict, then forget it. Illegal immigrants are swiftly removed unlike here with our useless Boarder Force

larrygrylls · 13/11/2019 06:25

The idea that immigration is a net benefit is true, especially with an ageing population. However, that does not mean any immigration from anywhere at no matter what pace.

The EU fundamentally broke when they admitted countries which had little in common economically or culturally (including some VERY anti Semitic countries). You cannot have freedom of movement of people and goods with countries which have a GDP of 30% of the richest countries without consequences (and not good ones).

The Euro is also a failed construct for much the same reasons as above. I find it fascinating that so many very clever and educated people who know far more than me are reluctant to accept the historical lessons about currency unions without common taxes, language and culture (none lasted).

I am not looking forward to Brexit per se but having lived through the Asian crisis, the Euro crisis (which was actually pretty big) and 2008 which really was, financially, huge, I don’t think Brexit will be as big a deal as most think, especially given some sort of fudged deal.

If I were to worry about geopolitics, China/US tensions are far scarier, as is the ever increasing amount of Euro debt held by the ECB.

The worst predictions concerning Brexit currently still make us richer in 10 years than we are now. Is that really depressing and terrifying? Of course, you can argue that any poorer is a silly own goal, but there are good arguments on both sides of this.

There will always be things going on in the world which could go badly wrong and, generally, depression about the state of the world is displacement of issues far closer to home.

lonelyplanetmum · 13/11/2019 06:27

Here we go again using tabloid soundbites. Difficulties with Infrastructure in schools and Doctors appointments are down to lack of funding by successive governments.

For example seeSee
This research from the Nuffield Trust points out that the additional cost pressures on the NHS are largely driven by reasons other than migration – namely, our ageing population and the rising cost of wages.

lonelyplanetmum · 13/11/2019 06:27

My post was to the 'Namechange'

twofingerstoEverything · 13/11/2019 06:35

TiceCream:
but if areas of higher immigration voted remain then surely thats an endorsement of immigration?
"Or maybe there are a lot of immigrant voters there who are bound to think it’s a good thing?^
Those immigrants aren't allowed to vote in General Elections or Referendums, though, so they would not be influencing the remain vote at all. The only EU immigrants who can vote are those who have obtained citizenship, which most hadn't done because they didn't need to.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 13/11/2019 06:39

Double

Employment laws are down to the government. Workers, regardless of nationality should join a union. Workers are not to blame for crap employment practices.

Snowy111 · 13/11/2019 06:49

Can you link to those positive financial predictions Larry?

larrygrylls · 13/11/2019 07:18

Hi Snowy,

Please see the below.

The funnel chart shows a number of predictions. Please note that these are RELATIVE to a projected growth rate of 2.1% per annum or about 25-30% growth until 2030 (I am on a train so cannot accurately compound in my head). No projection is showing actual contraction on a 10 year basis.

www.lse.ac.uk/europeanInstitute/LSE-Commission/Hearing-11---The-impact-of-Brexit-on-jobs-and-economic-growth-sumary.pdf

lonelyplanetmum · 13/11/2019 07:32

Worth a read...

"Firstly, the UK’s GDP growth has slowed down. In broad macroeconomic terms, GDP growth in the UK has been low but remained positive since the referendum. Relative to G7 countries, however, the UK has slipped from having the highest growth rate in the G7 before the vote, to the lowest now (OBR 2018). "

To feel so fucking depressed and angry about brexit?
Peregrina · 13/11/2019 08:34

The only EU citizens who were allowed to vote were Irish, Maltese and Cypriots. I doubt whether all that many people have immigrated from the last two countries.

Swipe left for the next trending thread