To feel so fucking depressed and angry about brexit?

[ssd]

I'm Scottish. I voted to remain. It feels like nothing I vote for matters. I despise Farage and Johnstone. I despise the call for sovereignty certain parts of England still believe in. I despise of the right wing media.

I really feel this country is fucked, unless you have money behind you and beside you.

True arsedarkly. I suppose I'd only add that I think the nation's wellbeing is in even worse shape. In total the Tories last nine years have been shit all round 😐

Danetobe I don't think that's true at all - after 9+ years of austerity we are still massively in debt

It is utterly depressing and yet after all this austerity and the misery inflicted on the country the Tory party have in fact increased the national debt. They are now promising a magic money tree and Brexit unicorns all around meanwhile lambasting Labours plans at every opportunity while failing to provide any costs for their plans. These people have no accountability, no credibility and no morals but yet people think Boris is some sort of Churchill #2

it’s a simple recognition of the fact that the beneficiaries of FOM and the EU generally are middle class.

Do you think the Brits living in Spain are all middle class? How about the geordies depicted in Auf Wiedershen, Pet?

You do not need to have money in a hedge fund to be wary about the EU

That's absolutely right and was the reason why I voted to leave in 2016.

What baffles me now is how anybody can still believe that Brexit is a good idea, however sceptical they may be.

With everything that's happened over the last 3 and half years, the warnings about the damage it will do to an already damaged country, the greater knowledge about the EU we've all had the time to gain and seeing the character of the people pushing for Brexit - total creeps like Johnson, Mogg, Gove, Farage, Banks etc - how can anyone still support it?

In total the Tories last nine years have been shit all round

Neatly summed up Danetobe - crisis in all areas No way can this country afford another Tory government

I used to be bothered by the unfair & untrue generalisations & character assassinations of Leave voters but now I don't give a fuck

Same...but the ones aimed at remain voters

To be honest if people can’t debate without insulting swathes of people then I’d suggest they dont have much of an argument in the first place

Sorry, since we were talking about Brexit I assumed it was fairly obvious I meant the UK, ghost

You're obviously NU to be depressed and angry, but you can't be angry at people who exercised their democratic right to vote differently to you. You should be angry at the complete lack of leadership in the Remain campaign - no-one either before the referendum or in the 3+ years since it has been able to rally support in sufficient numbers, in spite of apparently having "facts" on their side, loads of time, high profile in the media, etc.etc. Maybe the arguments for remain just aren't good enough, maybe it isn't a clear cut decision, and if so, all things considered (which they never are), maybe it doesn't matter as much as everyone thinks?

I am honestly not coming here with the intention to sneer

You don't sound sneery Lexitleft, that remark was aimed at the usual suspect leavers who come on to every thread like this to make derisive remarks about how boring it all is and remainers are just pissed off because 'they lost'. It's really shit

MeganBacon good post. Agree completely.

There are loads of things I’m angry with Remain for. The Irish border is a huge issue but it wasn’t even mentioned in the literature before the vote. Immigration was a hot topic too but Remain completely failed to address it. They just kept whinging on about economic consequences - meanwhile loads of voters were saying “I’m unemployed so it won’t affect me”, or “Good, it serves the fat cats right if they lose their businesses”, etc. Among Leave voters there was a very strong sense of punishing the wealthy that wasn’t acknowledged.

You should be angry at the complete lack of leadership in the Remain campaign

but but but..the Brexieers said easiest trade deal in human history, we hold all the cards, money for the NHS. All we've had is millions down the drain for a Brexit leavers can't even agree on.

Do you think the Brits living in Spain are all middle class? How about the geordies depicted in Auf Wiedershen, Pet?

"The Independent" 1996;

"Germany is set to bid Auf Wiedersehen to up to 80,000 British building workers.Under a law passed by the Bonn parliament yesterday, foreign workers in the construction industry will have to be paid the same rates as their German counterparts from 1 March. Companies that break the rules are liable to fines of up to DM100,000 (pounds 45,000)."

"The law on "wage dumping" attempts to close a loophole that has been pricing native workers out of their own market."

"The cost of employing a skilled German bricklayer comes to DM85 an hour, including the steep national insurance contributions mandatory under German law.The cheaper solution is to sub-contract the work, for between DM35 and DM45 and hour. A British worker will get between DM20 and DM25 of that, with the remainder staying in the contractor's pocket."

"The law passed yesterday is unique in being aimed specifically at citizens of other European Union countries, and exploits Britain's opt-out from the Maastricht Treaty's Social Chapter.The German government argues that it must offer the same protection to Britons that German laws afford native workers.The effect, as Bonn is aware, will be the exact opposite."

www.independent.co.uk/news/british-brickies-face-sack-from-german-jobs-1318176.html

Clavinova

You dig out an irrelevant 25 year old article in order to respond to a comment about how working class Brits have benefitted from FOM over the course of the UK's EU membership.

FOM driving down wages was mentioned up thread;

"I remember politicians discussing how FOM was driving up housing costs and driving down wages back in the Blair/Brown years."

FOM driving down wages was mentioned up thread;

Not by me but I'll bite... wages are low because companies cant be arsed paying workers a decent wage. House prices are high because of the commodification of property.

Tony Benn, Frank Field, Corbyn himself are or were eurosceptic

Also true, but for Benn and Corbyn it was nothing to do with FOM and everything to do with an gut dislike of overbearing organisations run by bureaucrats who seem to be building their own empires and who are remote from the people that their decisions affect.

The UK gov have prioritised the economy over the wellbeing of the population for at least 40 years, including issues relating to migration. Brexit or remain ain't gonna change that.

I would add: remain won't change that as those are UK problems. Brexit though will make everything worse.

Because it'll trash the economy.

wages are low because companies cant be arsed paying workers a decent wage.

No need to pay better wages if they can pay foreign workers less - self-employed lorry drivers in the North of England were complaining that EU lorry drivers were working for £1.20 per hour - they can live on that amount because they sleep in their cabs for 3 months at a time.

Yanbu. I'm gutted and thoroughly fucked off with the whole Brexshit disaster, but even more so by the prospect of a Tory majority in the GE

No need to pay better wages if they can pay foreign workers less

You're letting companies off the hook. The problem are companies not workers.

Yanbu. I'm gutted and thoroughly fucked off with the whole Brexshit disaster, but even more so by the prospect of a Tory majority in the GE

This. Exactly this.

FOM has kept UK wages low and rents high and disincentivised investment in automation. Nobody will ever pay more than the minimum wage if they don't have to. We've had record numbers of people in work, which means bigger GDP that looks good on charts but it doesn't help someone on the minimum wage.
Since the Leave vote wages have finally been going up. That's a good thing and it's one reason why it's hard to sell the benefits of EU membership.

You're letting companies off the hook. The problem are companies not workers.

Fine, Germany introduced a new law to combat the problem in 1996;

"foreign workers in the construction industry will have to be paid the same rates as their German counterparts...companies that break the rules are liable to fines of up to DM100,000 (pounds 45,000)."

No doubt something similar will be in the remainer manifestos - I shall look out for it!