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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of â…” of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

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tobee · 29/10/2019 14:56

It's true! Brexit is a bucket of shit. Which is why it hasn't been sorted. I think that people are kidding themselves that an election will sort it. Just the option people have decided to push for. Rather than push for revoke or pv. Doesn't mean it will solve anything. Regardless of the result.

Brexit is undeliverable. A bucket of shit would be a picnic to deliver in comparison. EnvyGrin

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 14:57

A Prophet without honour anywhere

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OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/10/2019 14:59

where have all the Tories including Johnson gone????
I've got a feeling they are going to pull the bill.

PotterHead1985 · 29/10/2019 14:59

Ian Blackford mentioning BoZo 'scuttled' out of the chamber. 'One wonders if he is away to dig a ditch'!!!!!

Violetparis · 29/10/2019 14:59

If they do pull the bill, what on earth happens next ????

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 15:01

where have all the Tories including Johnson gone???? I've got a feeling they are going to pull the bill.

Oh god! Have I spoken too soon? I need to get back to work now anyway (difficult with all this going on) but will check in later.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/10/2019 15:05

It's because it looks like the amendment to give 16/17 year olds the vote is being supported by Corbyn isn't it?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 15:05

As I posted, Corbyn hasn't been the one holding back Labour from a GE;
if anything, he held back for party unity - he loves campaigning and the ego boost it gives

Many of his MPs - including in the Shadow Cabinet - are still opposed, especially Remainers and / or those with possibly marginal seats.

Some of them may even vote against, which would be embarassing for Labour, but wouldn't affect the final vote.
WIth Tories, LDs, SNP & some Indies voting for a GE, they about have a majority already

https://news.sky.com/story/labour-to-back-early-general-election-11848188

"it is a decision that has provoked a backlash in the parliamentary party, and is understood to be opposed by a number of shadow cabinet members.

Whether that backlash will result in rebellious parliamentary manoeuvres and amendments significant enough to scupper what looks like an inevitable election is highly questionable."

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DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 15:05

If they do pull the bill, what on earth happens next ????

Well that's a consideration that separates rank amateurs from the professionals ... what is "plan B" ?

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 15:07

WIth Tories, LDs, SNP & some Indies voting for a GE, they about have a majority already

Is that with all amendments ?

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 15:08

Guy Verhofstadt@guyverhofstadt

Relieved that finally no one died in a ditch.

Whether the UK's democratic choice is revoke or an orderly withdraw, confirmed or not in a second referendum, the uncertainty of Brexit has gone on for far too long.

This extra time must deliver a way forward.

< he means again: "do not waste this time" >

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PotterHead1985 · 29/10/2019 15:08

Can I ask my wonderful friends in here what their thoughts are on giving votes to 16/17 y/os in England (I'll admit I didn't know until today that those in Wales and Scotland had this). And also, but less so, about giving EU settled the vote in Parliamentary elections? Do you agree/disagree with JC on it??

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 15:08

what is "plan B"

PLAN B.....WE HAVE A PLAN B ??? WHERE ?

Not seen one of those from this lot since well ever ???? Grin

prettybird · 29/10/2019 15:09

where have all the Tories including Johnson gone???? I've got a feeling they are going to pull the bill.

Don't read too much into it - they always leave as soon as Blackford gets his turn as the 3rd largest party Angry

Although as has been pointed out, that image is doing wonders for support for Scottish independence Grin

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 15:10

I agree with it Potter I know most don’t but that’s fine.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/10/2019 15:10

I do agree with JC, but I'm not sure about timing, can they be implemented by a December election? It seems unlikely.

prettybird · 29/10/2019 15:11

Re the "dead in a ditch" comment: it's not yet the 31st October Halloween Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 15:11

"Is that with all amendments"

Nope.
The Tories will vote against all SNP or Labour amendments and then if any are carried, BJ would probably pull the bill.

That's why adding amendments is a tactic of those who don't want a GE, as well as being an SNP tactic for their own reasons.

It is a way to push the blame for no GE back onto BJ
They are all playing party politics, as well as still trying for their own favoured Brexit outcome.

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PotterHead1985 · 29/10/2019 15:14

@prettybird can you imagine some poor kiddies going trick or treating for Halloween and coming across that in their local ditch. They'd need counselling for life Grin

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 15:17

The Tories will vote against all SNP or Labour amendments and then if any are carried, BJ would probably pull the bill.

Ah ... so an election isn't guaranteed then ? I saw the post a couple of hours ago, but (grappling with rsync issues) it didn't fully register.

I wonder how Boris would spin having to pull the election he's been banging on about (that he didn't want) the very moment Corbyn finally agrees to it ?

tobee · 29/10/2019 15:20

My mum was speaking for 16 year olds getting the vote in her local debating society Grin. She was aghast when I said I didn't think it was necessarily a good idea. But that was because I was imagining the young voters would be voting for Self ID and more. Whereas of course now, if they are anti Johnson and Brexit, I've changed my mind!!!

OublietteBravo · 29/10/2019 15:20

If he pulls the bill after trying to get a GE 3 times via FTPA, then Johnson is going to look pretty stupid. Great ammo for the opposition though.,,,

MockersthefeMANist · 29/10/2019 15:21

I think 16/17 year olds voting is self-regulating in that only the intelligent and politically engaged ones will bother to register.

Good Thing, IMO.

Now the one the Tory tabs will explode (metaphor) over is to give the vote to EU nationals in the UK.

TatianaLarina · 29/10/2019 15:22

Relieved that finally no one died in a ditch.

He doesn’t sound very sincere.