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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of ⅔ of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

OP posts:
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PotterHead1985 · 29/10/2019 11:04

Christ on a bike, according to Sky news they are going to debate for 6 hours with a vote not likely until half 7!!!

cloudydaysinautumn · 29/10/2019 11:05

A hung parliament voting for a general election in a situation where the governing party is unable to pass any legislation and the country is stumbling from one Brexit-related crisis to another with parliament incapable of making any positive decision, looks the complete opposite of a constitutional outrage!!

TokyoSushi · 29/10/2019 11:10

So it seems to be more about the date now than if it'll go ahead. It'll be fascinating to have a Christmas election in my polling station too.

So it's a yes to the election, but what of the amendments...

lonelyplanetmum · 29/10/2019 11:10

Lost track... are they allowing disproportionately more time to debate an election which will last for 5 years than a trade deal bill that'll last for decades?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 11:13

I'm hoping increased heating costs, food costs, no wage growth, higher use of a failing NHS (due to Tory cuts) because of winter will give the Tories an uncomfortable campaign

Bearbehind · 29/10/2019 11:13

Corbyn says conditions met, he's backing the election

Well at least something different has to happen now

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 11:14

But isn't the cornerstone of the UK constitution parliamentary sovereignty and no parliament can bind its successors....?

It used to be. The problem is 3 years of dicking about trying to honour a referendum that had no place in the UKs constitution has rather pissed all over that- certainly in the publics grasp of constitutional affairs (which wasn't really that great to begin with).

Even the US constitution isn't set in stone, as 27 amendments are testament to.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 11:16

Tom Newton Dunn
@tnewtondunn
·
10m
Is a December GE now locked on? Not quite yet. I'm told Labour will back amendments to put settled EU citizens on the electoral register. IF SNP/LDS do too, the Govt could yet pull the bill... so they may not.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 11:18

Laura Pidcock MP
@LauraPidcockMP
·
1m
BRING IT ON!

I think Labour are afraid of an election Grin

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 11:19

Matt Dathan
@matt_dathan
·
4m
SNP and Lib Dem MPs are apparently lobbying the Speaker John Bercow not to select an amendment expected from Labour to demand votes for 16 and EU citizens.

They don't want to look bad by voting against 16 year-olds and EU nationals getting the vote.

fedup21 · 29/10/2019 11:22

When do we hear what amendments are selected?

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 11:23

Sebastian Payne
@SebastianEPayne
·
1h
Still a lot of nervousness among Tory MPs about the impending election. “It’s like a can of paint. Once it’s open, it’s going to splatter everywhere. No one really knows how it’s going to turn out,” said one.

Another: “It all feels very hubristic, very Theresa May circa 2017.”

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 11:24

I thought Parliament wasn’t allowed to amend this bill ?

Sorry have I blinked and missed something?

TheMShip · 29/10/2019 11:26

Basil I think it's just the FTPA motions that can't be amended.

fedup21 · 29/10/2019 11:27

I thought Parliament wasn’t allowed to amend this bill

Oh really-why?

thewomanontheshore · 29/10/2019 11:30

I have a nasty feeling we will end up with a decent Tory majority, with the middle of the road Tories having been thrown out of the party, replaced with right-wing nutters. Then full on with a no deal Brexit, or BJ's WA, followed by No Deal in 12 months. Then the dismantling of the UK. In fact the dismantling may well start during the transition period (if any). BJ will persist in refusing another Indyref in Scotland, and there will be a move to remove devolution in Scotland and Wales. Just hope I'm very wrong.

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 11:31

^Boris Johnson has given up on a windfall for the UK of almost £7bn, which would have covered more than a fifth of the “divorce bill” from the EU.

Under the terms of the new withdrawal bill, which passed its second reading in parliament last Tuesday, Britain has abandoned any claim to the accumulated profits from the European Investment Bank (EIB), which is owned by EU nations.^

Anyone else spotted this from The Times. The rest is paywalled.

But it seems in addition to frittering away Hammond’s rainy day fund Johnson has walked away from our £7bn funds in European Investment Bank.

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 11:35

Oh really-why?

Heidi Allen on Twitter but I have gone back through the thread and it looks like she was talking about WAB.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 11:58

Britain Elects
@britainelects
·
57s
The Britain Elects poll tracker gives the Conservatives a lead of 10pts:

CON: 35.1% (+0.3)
LAB: 25.4% (-)
LDEM: 18.1% (-0.1)
BREX: 11.3% (-0.1)
GRN: 4.0% (-0.2)

Basil have at it Grin

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 29/10/2019 12:00

Can someone please explain the bill to me? It is just this vote or does it get further readings and then go through HoL and royal assent?

lonelyplanetmum · 29/10/2019 12:08

Let's try an amendment to have a PV at the same. Hell its all such a mess and so unknown just go for a meltdown.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/10/2019 12:18

dd has asked me to ask you a question. How long in advance are General election postal votes sent out? She needs to know which address to have it sent to - especially as she's away for some of the time.

BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 12:19

"The reason most on here don’t want a GE is because it won’t deliver the result they want."

That's the reason most Labour MPs don't want a GE

Corbyn's resistance to a GE is because MPs who are Remainers and /or marginal seats don't want one
- it's boring to keep blaming him for that

Instead, blame him for the disgraceful state of Labour party organisation that leaves them completely unprepared for a GE, wrt candidates, target seats, protecting their own marginals etc

Also boring to keep demanding a Labour leadership election - he's won twice in 3 years by huge margins

Most of us here despise both BJ and Corbyn, but their members are never going to choose the leaders that we want

THAT is wishful thinking

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BigChocFrenzy · 29/10/2019 12:23

I expect Labour to try to add amendments
Yes, that would probably cause BJ to pull the bill - Labour want him to look the bad guy.

It's all about party politics:

Each party & leader will choose the best option for their party prospects

That's regrettable, but it's wishful thinking to expect anything else

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MangoSalsa · 29/10/2019 12:25

Agree womanontheshore. The devolved parliaments will be whittled away to nothing or abolished.

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