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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of â…” of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

OP posts:
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Motheroffourdragons · 29/10/2019 07:55

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

QuentinWinters · 29/10/2019 08:04

I think the LDs and SNP must believe if there was an election they could win a working majority on a remain manifesto (maybe with plaid and green added in)
It will be very interesting to see what Labour do today

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:04

I've just read this...it would seem that legislation is needed to change the way elections are called first is needed.

Oh god, I hope not. This just sounds like yet another blocking tactic from Labour who are clearly desperate not to have an election.

I’m starting to worry that Labour’s reluctance to go to the polls is already doing serious damage to their campaign, and a GE hasn’t even been called yet Sad

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 29/10/2019 08:06

mother well that article has swung Dd8 over. Despite the best efforts of our local erg mp giving a talk in school. Pigs in blankets is her red line.

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:08

Just to add to my previous post... I think the image of the Lib Dems and SNP bypassing Labour to get a GE - and Corbyn being dragged to the polls against his will - is a very negative and damaging stance from which to start an election campaign. I’m starting to lose hope Sad

Bearbehind · 29/10/2019 08:10

I’m starting to worry that Labour’s reluctance to go to the polls is already doing serious damage to their campaign, and a GE hasn’t even been called yet

It is doing serious damage

Corbyn is just showing himself as the disrupter rather than a leader he is.

He has repeated the mantra of ‘we need a GE’ throughout the Brexit process, because he knew it wasn’t going to happen.

Now it can happen he’s changed his tune and is running scared and is coming out with every excuse under the sun.

What makes it worse is his excuses keep changing as each threshold he previously set is passed.

And anyone who defends this might as well put their cross in the blue box on the ballot paper themselves

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 08:11

I’m starting to worry that Labour’s reluctance to go to the polls is already doing serious damage to their campaign, and a GE hasn’t even been called yet

Alternatively, it's not Labours role to capitulate to Tory demands Hmm

There's an increasing danger that an election is being viewed as some sort of magic spell that will somehow disappear all the woes that have best the UK since the pandoras box of the referendum. Which is only going to lead to even more disappointment when people twig that - like Brexit itself - it wasn't a magic bullet.

We could end up almost exactly where we are now with a tied House of Commons, and no way to either revoke, or withdraw.

Remember, Boris was supposed to have solved all the issues by now too. Whatever happened to that ?

Bearbehind · 29/10/2019 08:14

A GE isn’t a magic bullet but what other option is there?

And please don’t say PV or Revoke?

fedup21 · 29/10/2019 08:15

And please don’t say PV or Revoke?

Why not? Both are options.

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 08:16

I think the LDs and SNP must believe if there was an election

It's hard to see any integrity in either party if they back a Tory plea for an election - even it it superficially seems in their own interests.

I can't speak directly for the SNP, since I can't vote for them. But I would be disappointed if the LibDems just waved a Tory bill through without ensuring some absolutely ball-crunching demands of theirs are met. I've often defended them against the tuition fee outrage, but would find it a lot harder to defend such a lapse of judgement. It would certainly affect my judgement of them if they subsequently come grubbing for votes.

mrslaughan · 29/10/2019 08:16

@chomalungma - well he can say it all he likes ...... the problem is most of the prep just parrot what he says, rather than applying any critical thinking and challenging that message

Songsofexperience · 29/10/2019 08:19

I just don't understand why Labour haven't already selected a new leader. What is blocking them? Do Corbyn supporters have a complete stranglehold on the party? Surely even they can see the problem?

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:19

Why not? Both are options.

Both are options, but there just don’t seem to be the numbers in parliament to achieve either (though please correct me if I’m wrong?)

A GE seems to be the only option to break the stalemate (and give the public another say on Brexit) that could potentially have the numbers.

mrslaughan · 29/10/2019 08:19

@DGRossetti

"I can't speak directly for the SNP, since can't vote for them. But I would be disappointed if the LibDems just waved a Tory bill through without ensuring some absolutely ball-crunching demands of theirs are met."

Completely agree with this - I suspect their polling shows the will win- but that is again putting power ahead of their integrity and what they supposed stand for

fedup21 · 29/10/2019 08:21

I just don't understand why Labour haven't already selected a new leader. What is blocking them?

It was a lengthy process wasn’t it-when Corbyn went for it? Went on for weeks with party members voting. They haven’t really had tome to do this between Brexit extensions!

Bearbehind · 29/10/2019 08:22

Why not? Both are options.

No they aren’t

That’s why we’re in the endless cycle - people still believe in things which simply aren’t possible in practice - the situation which would allow either a PV or revoke just isn’t going to materialise

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 08:23

It was a lengthy process wasn’t it-when Corbyn went for it? Went on for weeks with party members voting. They haven’t really had tome to do this between Brexit extensions!

Yet the Tories managed ...

mrslaughan · 29/10/2019 08:23

On the flip side of my disappointment with Lib Dem's becoming an active participant in Bozo's game- I am really impressed with JC NOT being egged into Bozo's game ....... but then let's see what happens today

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:23

It's hard to see any integrity in either party if they back a Tory plea for an election

Jo Swinson was on C4 news last night saying she wants an election because the public must have another say on Brexit - and I agree with her. This parliamentary stalemate isn’t doing anyone any good!

I just don't understand why Labour haven't already selected a new leader. What is blocking them?

Isn’t it down to the way that the Labour leader is chosen - voted in by members? I don’t see why they couldn’t at least try to elect a new one though.

QuentinWinters · 29/10/2019 08:25

Completely agree with this - I suspect their polling shows the will win- but that is again putting power ahead of their integrity and what they supposed stand for

They stand for remaining in the EU. Unequivocal position they have held for a long time. The only way we can remain is to get a government to revoke a50. They need to be in power to do that. So I dont think there is a conflict between power/integrity in this case

fedup21 · 29/10/2019 08:26

Yet the Tories managed

But they have a completely different system, don’t they? Leaders are chosen only by MPs not party members. Also, TM had resigned so the vacancy had to be filled.

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 08:27

A GE isn’t a magic bullet but what other option is there?

Force Boris to carry on. Let the FTPA do the job it was intended to do and either force a consensus government, or make the incumbents carry the can for the decisions they've made.

It would help if we applied the same attitude to government that the government (especially Tory ones) apply to prisoners and damn well make sure they serve their sentence, regardless of the harm it might do them. They wanted power. Well, they damn well got it, and can damn well live with it.

It wasn't the public that called the 2017 election. It wasn't the public that scuttled to the Queen even before the full result was known to crow about "winning". Well, win you did, now enjoy your prize. 5 years in power.

mrslaughan · 29/10/2019 08:28

@Bearbehind
"A GE isn’t a magic bullet but what other option is there?"

I personally think a GE will just muddy the waters even more. If we don't have a GE the pressure on Bozo to do something will be immense- and the ploy of not bringing back the WAB will be seen for what it is by the public- his ratings will plummet further. It's nail biting stuff - but I think they have him in a corner , by allowing a GE it lets him out. I think it's really high risk.
Don't get me wrong - I would love to see him hammered in the polls ....... but I am not sure that that will happen- who knows what Cummings has up his sleeve interns of dirty tricks......

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:28

If we do have a GE and Boris wins, I will be devastated that we’ll finally be leaving the EU - but I also feel it would give me some form of closure, in the sense that the public have been given another say at this late stage and still voted to Brexit.

If we leave without a GE/PV then I certainly wouldn’t have that sense.

OublietteBravo · 29/10/2019 08:29

Does the GE timing impact the election of the new speaker? I’m not sure there will be time in this parliament if the GE is on 9 December.