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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of â…” of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

OP posts:
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Motheroffourdragons · 29/10/2019 08:29

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:30

They stand for remaining in the EU. Unequivocal position they have held for a long time. The only way we can remain is to get a government to revoke a50. They need to be in power to do that. So I dont think there is a conflict between power/integrity in this case

Totally agree with this.

Motheroffourdragons · 29/10/2019 08:31

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:32

It would help if we applied the same attitude to government that the government (especially Tory ones) apply to prisoners and damn well make sure they serve their sentence, regardless of the harm it might do them.

And what about the harm it might do to the electorate?!

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 08:34

Leaders are chosen only by MPs not party members.

MPs whittle the candidates down to two them Conservative part members get the final say.

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:34

Does anyone know what time today’s vote is due to take place?

OublietteBravo · 29/10/2019 08:36

I’d far rather parliament used the time between now and Christmas to properly scrutinise the WAB. If Johnson’s deal is so great, then we need to implement it properly with carefully considered legislation. Why is he so reluctant to choose this route?

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 08:38

And what about the harm it might do to the electorate?!

We've moved beyond that now. Harm has already been done, and is being done. The question is what is the least harm for the future ?

An inconclusive GE stands ever chance of making things even worse than forcing Boris (or whoever Hmm) to carry on.

Part of the problem is we still have analogue politicians, despite it having been a digital age for two generations.

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 08:40

I’d far rather parliament used the time between now and Christmas to properly scrutinise the WAB. If Johnson’s deal is so great, then we need to implement it properly with carefully considered legislation. Why is he so reluctant to choose this route?

Because Boris' job was never to get a deal. It was to spearhead a no-deal crash out. It was his only job. The fact he couldn't even manage that (given it was the default) speaks volumes.

prettybird · 29/10/2019 08:42

But few students voted in their university constituencies in 2017 anyway

The 2017 election was in June so most students would have left their university town/city by then, so it's hardly surprising Confused

And because it was only called - unexpectedly - in mid April, that would've been in the middle of student exams so they would have been understandably focussed on other things rather than organising a postal vote Confused

Re why the one line bill wasn't used earlier, as far as BJ is concerned, with a minority government, it was a route he didn't want to go down as it would be amendable as fuck (eg including votes for under 18s, a Customs Union, making No Deal illegal, or even a Section 30 notice Wink), unlike the FTPA which is unamendable and he wouldn't be in control of the date as it could and would be set within the Bill (unlike the FTPA where it is still his choice and we all know he can't be trusted whatever he says Hmm)

OublietteBravo · 29/10/2019 08:42

I’d still prefer to see the WAB under parliamentary scrutiny. Some things need to come out into the light - a GE will just sweep everything under the carpet.

prettybird · 29/10/2019 08:46

...but I do also think it has served BJ's purpose to keep bringing the FTPA to the House so that he can claim that Corbyn is "frit" Hmm

It's just a game to him Angry

Hoooo · 29/10/2019 08:46

What time is the vote?

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 08:48

including votes for under 18s

Not sure how that would work in England ? There's no register, no time to set one up. Would the proposal be that kids have to turn up with their passports (if they have them ....) and the tellers take it on trust ?

And if the underlying sentiment is to enfranchise 16 and 17 year olds on the basis that they are subject to tax (No taxation without representation) then how does that square with an unaddressed point I made a while back in another thread about foreign workers who have to stump up taxes without being able to vote on the spending ????

placemats · 29/10/2019 08:50

And anyone who defends this might as well put their cross in the blue box on the ballot paper themselves

Never.

I vote Labour in my constituency because he is and always will be the best candidate. Corbyn has nothing to do with it. I've gone door to door for him and will do again and surprisingly, even Tory voters are coming round to the message that he IS the best candidate for the post of MP. The problem is persuading the LibDems.

OublietteBravo · 29/10/2019 08:51

Not sure how that would work in England ? There's no register, no time to set one up. Would the proposal be that kids have to turn up with their passports (if they have them ....) and the tellers take it on trust ?

The annual voter registration form asks for details of any 16/17 year olds in your household. So their existence is (or at least should be) already on record.

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 08:51

Don’t 17 year olds get added to the electoral register in advance ? Seem to remember putting DD on there prior to her actual 18th Birthday.

borntobequiet · 29/10/2019 08:51

I find it surprising that people complain about politicians playing politics, though admittedly it's annoying and frustrating. It's what they do. And as for only wanting to be in power, that's the whole point of their existence - to get into power and get things done, the right things, according to their own particular viewpoint.

Basilpots · 29/10/2019 08:51

Cheers Oub glad I’m not making stuff up Grin

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 08:52

Jonathan Ashworth
@JonAshworth
·
47m
Last night’s
@C4Dispatches
revealing govt officials had secret meetings with US pharma who want to force our NHS to buy more expensive drugs in a US Trump trade deal is exactly why we voted to protect our NHS last week.

Tory MP voted our attempt down & Lib Dem’s abstained.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/10/2019 08:52

Commenting from the weather point of view. Obviously I cannot forecast so far ahead to December, I'm not even going to be able to pretend to do so.

In saying that. At the moment, the models are such that the chances seem fairly high that, mid November, into December that the weather could be pretty stormy. I can talk more technically about that if people wish.

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:54

Whether you agree with 16/17 year olds having the vote or not (and I personally don’t), I’m not sure this election is the right time to introduce it.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 29/10/2019 08:54

Would it be too difficult for the civil service cross reference the electoral roll with NI cards? Do they still issue them at 16?

wondering7777 · 29/10/2019 08:55

On the other hand, it would surely mean more votes for Labour!

DGRossetti · 29/10/2019 08:56

Commenting from the weather point of view.

Careful what you imply.

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