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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of ⅔ of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

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Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 21:08

cat Cummings has successfully managed to convince even some of the most die hard Leavers that it’s parliament versus the people and Boris is a hero, even though that is utter bollocks

Don’t fall into the trap of thinking poor old Corbyn is being picked on - it’s a load of shite - he’s just not capable and has not got people around him who can counter the opposition

I don’t want to blame Corbyn.

I don’t need to blame anyone

I just want a resolution that’s viable

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 21:09

Really? I didn't know that about TalkinPeace.

That's grim.

Take care, Miljsh.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 28/10/2019 21:10

Bear, I'm not sure what your point is. One individual cannot change this process. The last 3 years should have taught you that. The country is split.

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 21:11

if they are determined to bully out all dissenting voices

To be fair, there’s quite a few of you trying to do that with me on this thread.

I’ll leave you to it for now.

Not a flounce, just acceptance that this is an echo chamber where some of you have become more polarised then even the most die hard of Leavers

ListeningQuietly · 28/10/2019 21:12

Place marking with a question
WHY, just WHY?
What do the EU expect to happen during the next three months?
What is the UK expected to have achieved by 31st January?

Are we ABSOLUTELY safe from no deal ?

Horehound · 28/10/2019 21:13

Has the vote been?

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 21:14

Bear, you aren't being logical. You say you aren't blaming Corbyn right after a post holding him solely responsible.

You then imply I am mindlessly supportive of him when I have simply pointed out that the 'rescue' of the situation is not in his gift.

I'm sorry. Life is too hard. I really can't engage if you are going to be very irrational.

You have to think in a straight line because the logic bomb thing is just too much for me.

Hoooo · 28/10/2019 21:14

What "they" did to tip was horrendous.

And mnhq let them.

(Shrug)

Mn isn't the place it was, for sure.

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 21:16

Bear I swear I'm not trying to bully you.

You ^know* I am not a Corbyn fan.

Honestly, if I'm suggesting you're getting it wrong about Corbyn ...

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 21:24

With the GE I think we are, genuinely, out of options.

I, personally, can't get over the failure to form a GNU. And I do think Labour should have accepted some 'neutral' people to head it.

But it didn't happen, so I have to get past it.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 21:26

Bear Unlike The Other Place, we don't report those with dissenting views or try to get them banned
We just disagree with you
There is a wide range of opinion here, from Corbynite left to right of centre, hardly an echo chamber
(I voted CDU, btw)

Poster00 and I disagree with each other frequently;
sometimes it gets heated, but we don't feel "got at"
We have both kept our opinions;
we understand each other's pov; we just agree to disagree
and we don't flounce

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thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 21:27

I also think any hope of tactical voting in this GE is going to be severely undermined by a vicious battle between LDs and Labour - which may result in splitting the anti-Brexit vote and letting in the Conservatives.

FadingStar · 28/10/2019 21:27

The Tories haven't don't THAT well in all the last five or so elections...everyone here sounds so defeatist.

FadingStar · 28/10/2019 21:28

Done.

Hoooo · 28/10/2019 21:28

The LDs can kiss my arse.

Wankers.

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 21:29

That's sad and interesting, wrt TiP. Because those are tactics that MRAs used to good (bad) effect.

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 21:30

Just worried, Fading.

Won't stop me fighting.

mrslaughan · 28/10/2019 21:34

I just don't see the point of an election- no deal is not off the table - it's a huge gamble. The PM has his deal , and an extension- let parliament debate it. We all know why he doesn't want that happen - but rather than being smart (or attempting to be, and failing)and offer alternative dates that you think suit you better - keep beating the drum for the WAB to be presented to parliament again - goad him into doing it......single message - again and again and again........ at the moment they are still letting number 10 control the message in the media

FadingStar · 28/10/2019 21:34

Yes it is so worrying. But it ain't over til the fat lady sings. 😁😉

mrslaughan · 28/10/2019 21:35

@thecatfromjapan - what's MRA's?

tava63 · 28/10/2019 21:35

@PotterHead1985 ClassicFM became my go to morning destresser to avoid the Today programme in these heady times ….. but guess who is the guest presenter for the school run show this week - John Humphrys! There is no escape from this madness.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 28/10/2019 21:37

@Miljah don't go. Don't let them bully you off mumsnet as that's what they want. They taunt then report when you understandably bite Thanks

Outsomnia · 28/10/2019 21:37

They are relying on Brexit Fatigue now.

Get it over with is the mantra, but why the heck are people not told that it is just the beginning of a much longer painful road to come.

Must be Putin and Trump. No one in UK could be so oblivious could they?

Basilpots · 28/10/2019 21:38

I also think any hope of tactical voting in this GE is going to be severely undermined by a vicious battle between LDs and Labour -

^ This. Any ‘anti-no deal’ and Remain voters will have to sort tactical voting out themselves. Hopefully some Labour supporters in Tory Lib Dem marginals will be prepared to pop their socks on with their sandals when they trudge off to vote. By the same token perhaps some Lib Dem’s in Labour Tory marginals will don a Corbyn cap and plonk a cross for Labour.

It’s a big ask and not helped by each party knocking lumps out of each other on Twitter.

Just puts people of off. Sad

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 21:38

thecat imo, Parliament has been unable to tackle Brexit for 3 main reasons:

  1. The emotion whipped up by an irresponsible referendum has overcome facts & logic

  2. MPs had insufficient knowledge of the issues:
    international trade & what being in the EU means are so complex that most MPs are only now beginning to understand the ramifications.
    Some still don't

  3. Remain / Leave support crosses party lines to a sufficient extent to stop the usual working of the HoC.
    The HoC relies on one party being in govt and pretty much united on its main policies; ditto the Opposition

Brexit has wrecked party discipline, with each party having sub-groups with different aims
All these groups have up to now held out for their #1 choice and refused to accept a #2 compromise.

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