Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

[BigChocFrenzy]

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of ⅔ of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

miljah reporting people isn’t my style but you really are behaving in an undignified way flitting between threads making trouble

As I said on the other thread, Leavers and Remainers disagree, stirring up more hatred isn’t helpful

I post on both threads, not many people do and I’m sure most on here would rather I didn’t but such is life.

@Bear. I agree. For very many it very much is 'because Corbyn'. The bottom line is they fear a Corbyn raid on their income, their savings, pensions, buy to let's and inheritances far more than they fear whatever Boris May bring.

Kanel something to do with students voting and also the further away from Christmas the less likely people will be busy with the festivities and so will come out to vote. Although you wouldn't think three days would make much difference.

Just watching Despatches on Channel4 about the US, drugs and the NHS

I think that's a huge factor, BackinTime.

There are others. Identification is a huge thing. People want to think they are not vulnerable and associate Labour with a Party for the vulnerable, so vote Conservative.

And many other reasons.

I find it baffling - particularly when we know this election will determine the future of the NHS.

I feel very bitter right now.

Just watching Despatches on Channel4 about the US, drugs and the NHS

Slightly alarming Liz Truss will be overseeing trade.

Me too Curly. 'The NHS is not for sale' says Johnson. Who here believes him, this most untrustworthy of PMs?

On a prosaic note. I'm also cutting my toe nails.

That's what I thought BJ might do:
take over the SNP / LDem proposal, but keep to his date to pretend it was his idea all along

Diane Abbott
@HackneyAbbott
·
3h
What I actually said in Shadow Cabinet today, "in the run-up to 2017 election, some Labour MPs were crying in my office and in the tearoom as if it's a f*ing funeral, saying Jeremy should stand down, then they all got re-elected with increased majorities"

Just saying

What Johnson will try to argue is that US companies will offer a greater choice and that drug pricing is not to be considered selling part of the NHS.

Trump has helped run up a trillion $ defecit will his tax cuts no way are we going to get a favourable deal. We will be screwed for every last penny.

Ah...just read that it's all to do the 25 days needed before the election. If it's on the 12th then Johnson could get his WA through this week.

Also to do with the NI bill so a budget for their civil service still to be able to have money to pay for stuff too Fading.

He's dropped the WAB now, so that's irrelevant. It's all about the NI bill (because suddenly he cares about NI).

Got ya Basil. It's all so head melting. Feel like I need to pop over to the Christmas threads for some relief. 😭

I'm missing something-what's the difference between today's vote and tomorrow's apart from the majority? And that he wants to make it a law? I'm too sleepy drugged on painkillers to think tonight.

Lol Fluffy yeah can't see it somehow. Johnson is just abhorrent isn't he.

It's all just such a fuck up! And seems like the emperors new clothes in many ways.
You mention Nick Brown, OP. He was my Labour MP when I lived in Newcastle City. He's a good bloke. I've met him a few times. That constituency is now massively divided between so many parties (my ballot slip used to have a choice of around 12 different options)
My current constituency is Tynemouth. In 2017 Labour won with 57% of the vote. Before Blair's landslide back in 1995? it had been a Tory seat for decades. The swing since then and now has been massive. I'm usually LD but I'll vote Labour to keep the Tories out.

bear Noone here thinks we are the majority, except possibly a v narrow majority wrt Remain

However, the Tories aren't a majority either, at most 40% of the electorate
It's just that under FPTP, the Leave split over parties looks more advantageous than the Remain split

I don't understand what you keep demanding we do

1. Give in and accept Tory policies ? Support No Deal Brexit, cutting benefits & workers rights, being cruel to the disabled, demonising immigrants .....?

What's the advantage of that ?
Progress is made by people with originally minority views persisting until they win
Thsoe who give up, lose immediately

2. Copy their winning tactics then we'd have to tell outrageous lies and join in the hate of the furrin and those on benefits

• it works for them, but is totally immoral and I won't do it.

3. Condemn Corbyn as useless We've done that hundreds of times, but it brings us no further

He's going to stay until after the GE
and he's not going to sacrifice Labour interests to help sort out Brexit (to be fair, no party leader would)

4. Support a GE
   Some of us would, so long as it is before Brexit

5. Support the WA
   I supported May's WA, but not this one
   The difference between No Deal on 31 Jan and on 31 Dec is worth little

I won't support a WA that would allow the Tories to have a Bonfire of Regulations & of the Welfare State, sell us off to US Big Biz.
I'm realistic - I expect a Tory GE win; if I expected a Labour / GNU one, then I'd swallow this WA.

So if I understand correctly (and I probably don't).

Todays vote was election on the twelfth, and push the wa Bill through before.

Lib dems/snp wanted election on the 9th and no WA bill.

Now boris is going for election on the 12th and no WA bill?

Very interesting programme on BBC Wales atm, re. how Brexit is likely to affect our food prices.. every reason given so far illustrating what we all fear, surprise surprise!

Looking on from outside EU at the minute, I doubt anyone REALLY wants to leave EU but are pretending they do somehow without any positives to back it up at all.

Anyway, a GE is not a given either, but if it happens it will be another bounty for MSM.

I think Brexit fatigue is incoming, and was carefully designed right now.

I don't understand what you keep demanding we do

I’m not ‘demanding’ you do anything

I’m just trying to provide a little balance and point out more people disagree with you / us than agree

so there’s little point in harping on about what we think should happen or would like to happen as it’s not in our control

And those who do have the ability to make a difference, ie Corbyn et al, are failing spectacularly and should be held to account for that

Right now we’re heading for a Tory win in December, or, even worse, a Tory / BXP coalition - and all that is being done to stop that is JC trying to avoid the GE he’s been calling for for 3 years.

I think Corbyn has been pro a GE from the off.

It's the PLP who were anti.

You're letting your emotions cloud your reading, Bear.

Anyway, Labour seem to have swung behind a GE.

So it looks like it's on.

You'd think the LibDems would jump at a chance of sticking it to the Tories .... and tell them why.

It'll be the last chance to get a government championing social democratic values. A Tory victory opens the gates to the brexit trojan horse and bye bye NHS. There will be no way back for the UK (if it doesn't break up) after that.