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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of ⅔ of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

OP posts:
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thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 19:39

I've read that Starmer has moved to supporting a pre-Christmas GE. Which I take to mean hopes of a PV are dead.

lonelyplanetmum · 28/10/2019 19:39

Maybe we should ask why ordinary people are still content to vote Tory when 10 years of austerity has ripped through communities. We are still perplexed as to why ordinary people are still supporting brexit when the evidence of the negative impacts has been available for 3 years.

The answers include ? appalling press, lack of political education, dumbing down of the world to reality tv and social media sound bites and hubris. False Belief that austerity was caused by EU, or that it was unpreventable. Or belief by voting Tory you prevent austerity happening to you.


Re the election- DD (age 11) just suggested having a voting slip with a PV at the same time as the GE! A multiple choice with remain, deal and 'don't really care' as options. I think her idea has some merit as the don't care would be so high it would take away the 'democracy' argument.

placemats · 28/10/2019 19:41

Re: Getting Brexit done.

Let's calm the mood with the Carpenters.

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 19:41

They are opposing. Just not in the way you want them to.

They really aren’t

If they were they’d be more popular in the polls

But they’re not

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 19:43

I think the idea now is to try and get concessions if An election Bill is proposed, wrt Johnson's Bill & who can vote.

It's all quite confusing.

Agree that spending the extension skirmishing without hope of PV or resolution is very grim.

MockersthefeMANist · 28/10/2019 19:43

Strange goings on at People's Vote involving Roland Rudd, Amber's Brother, friend of BJ, ex-head of his Garden Bridge scam.

For those who like their conspiracies theoretical.

TheMShip · 28/10/2019 19:44

Thanks for the heads up Miljah I've only visited the other place a couple of times and never posted there. They sure are passionate about Brexit.

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 19:47

The goings on at People's Vote are, indeed, extraordinary, Mockers.

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 19:49

Maybe we should ask why ordinary people are still content to vote Tory when 10 years of austerity has ripped through communities. We are still perplexed as to why ordinary people are still supporting brexit when the evidence of the negative impacts has been available for 3 years.

The answer isn't "because Corbyn".

It is

It’s because he has successfully convinced anyone what a clusterfuck this is - and if that isn’t the job of the opposition I don’t know what is

The Tories just spin a better narrative that people want to believe.

This is all about feelings

These threads are a great source of information but a lot of people fail to understand their opinion is the minority.

More people disagree with you than agree with you

I’m generally with most of you in the minority but even I can see what we’re doing isn’t working

tobee · 28/10/2019 19:53

I know I shouldn't have but I had a quick peek at the other place. Pretty vitriolic there! It is a bit like the other side of the coin. Not much information though. Didn't see any links. 🤷🏻‍♀️

placemats · 28/10/2019 19:54

Brown didn't win, nor did Miliband. Are they to blame as well?

Could it possibly be the MSM Bear?

Notably, The Daily Mail, Sun and Telegraph.

Basilpots · 28/10/2019 19:54

Can someone explain to me why the vote for an election failed today but more then likely pass tomorrow.

This vote was under ‘fixed term Parliament Act’ so requires 2/3 of MPs to vote for it. Tomorrow just needs a simple majority.

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 19:54

I think it's quite hard to get through to people when you have to reach them via the Daily Mail and the Sun.

It just is.

And the BBC is just ... bonkers. Sadly.

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 19:54

I think it's quite hard to get through to people when you have to reach them via the Daily Mail and the Sun.

It just is.

And the BBC is just ... bonkers. Sadly.

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 19:56

Sebastian Payne@SebastianePayne
Confirmed: @BorisJohnson will introduce an Election Bill on Tuesday, second reading expected the same day.

The government will not reintroduce the withdrawal agreement legislation. Now entirely focused on December 12 election.

Why did Johnson opt for Dec 12th as opposed to 9, as per the Liberal Democrat/SNP's bill?

No10 insiders say it would require parliament to be dissolved by midnight on Friday, which is too tight timing to get through Commons and Lords. Plus NI budget bill needs pass this week.

No10 source: “Tonight we are laying a one clause motion to amend the FTPA and call an election with the named day of December 12.

"The bill is very similar to the Lib Dem/SNP bill. The WAB will not be put back. This is the way to get Brexit done so the country can move on.”

Nicholas Watt@nicholaswatt
Jo Swinson says no to Boris Johnson’s early election bill if he sticks by his proposed date of 12 December

Jo Swinson says: “If Boris Johnson wants a General Election, then he could have supported our Bill for a General Election on December 9th. Instead, he has chosen to stick to his original plan for December 12th which we have already rejected.”

Nick Eardley @nickeardleybbc
Jo Swinson to @Channel4News: We will see where we're at tomorrow. We'll see what the bill says.

Voila212 · 28/10/2019 19:56

Thanks Basilpots

placemats · 28/10/2019 19:58

The Tories just spin a better narrative that people want to believe.

Do you honestly think this Bear?

Listening to the debate tonight on the Parliament channel it was obvious that the Tories are bereft of a narrative other than parroting what they are told to say. There is more intellectual discussion going on in the other thread.

It's the MSM. Peter Oborne has already addressed this.

Anyway. Time to watch Dispatches on Channel 4. NHS and the USA.

GhostofFrankGrimes · 28/10/2019 20:00

Bear, we are in this mess because of spin and feelings. Unless people take stock, understand facts and think critically then nothing will change.

No guarantee remain would win a second referendum, which should tell you everything. Blair,, Campbell, Heseltine and Major haven't won hearts and minds either. It's only remainers that expect Corbyn to be the messiah by pulling the rabbit out the hat and make brexit go away. Remainers have hung their hat on so many people - the change uk MPs, Rory Stewart etc. False dawns.

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 20:01

Lewis Goodall @lewis_goodall
NEW: I’ve been told by civil service source that Operation Yellowhammer (no deal planning) has been stood down. Government has confirmed.

The government has spent at least roughly £2billion (or £30 per person) on no deal preparations up to now.

Still perhaps no surprise it’s happening now. Just at time they want to convince Labour no deal isn’t going to happen, govt shuts down no deal prep. And it makes sense. After all, they have a deal.

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 20:01

Probably worth saying that Best for Britain are still going - and they aren't fighting and are great.

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 20:02

Do you honestly think this Bear?

Yes

Not because I agree with it but because I can see more people do than don’t

I honestly can’t understand why people on here don’t get that

We are the minority

People aren’t convinced by what we think

They believe all the stuff we don’t

But there are more of them than us so they will get their way before we do unless something changes

Miljah · 28/10/2019 20:02

MShip, you are welcome.

I got reported, then deleted for writing 'Westminsterenders' on there. Seriously. Genuinely. That was the sum of it.

Jeez, I actually praised Dusty for actually providing her Leave reasons, in a post even she acknowledged wasn't her usual, goady, sound bite.... however, gang unity won.

Which is why there are now five people back-slapping in there.

For fear of permanent exclusion, I hope it was a MN work experience student deleted me, in fear; thinking mentioning the tag word for this long running thread meant what I said was ' thread about a thread'. I always want to think more highly of MN.

However, we are where we are.

But I reissue my suggestion: Stay away from The Pub.

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 20:03

Unless people take stock, understand facts and think critically then nothing will change.

The last 3 years have shown that that is not going to happen

TheMShip · 28/10/2019 20:04

The Labour MP Stephen Doughty says he was wrong when he suggested earlier that there were rumours that Boris Johnson could stand as a candidate in East Yorkshire, not in his current constituency, Uxbridge and South Ruislip. (See 5.42pm.) He says the Tory MP for East Yorkshire, Sir Greg Knight, has been readopted as a candidate. Doughty says he muddled the constituency up with another one.

KanelbulleKing · 28/10/2019 20:05

Why are they bickering over the 9th vs 12th? I'm clearly missing something as I can't figure out what difference it makes.