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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of ⅔ of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

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thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 19:04

Yes indeed, BigChoc.

Don't know why I put a smilie anywhere near the phrase, 'the leadership is factional'. It's not a smiling matter.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 19:06

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall

EARLY ELECTION MOTION (III)

AYES: 299
NOES: 70

Maj: 229

BUT 434 votes required.

By my count defeat number 11 for Boris Johnson’s government.

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RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 19:06

For an election on 12th Dec, it would mean dissolution at beginning of Wednesday 6 November, and the WAB needing to pass by Tuesday 5 November...

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 28/10/2019 19:06

I'm watching bbc parliament but on iplayer, so must be massively behind. This thread is like reading a really good fortune teller!

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 19:07

I know. BigChoc.

I just wanted to stop the conspiracy-theory-type thing about Corbyn/Milne having a secret plan behind wanting No Deal.

I think we're kind of beyond that now.

The situation is so messed up, there's no point scaring ourselves with illogic.

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 19:08

Parties don't get votes because they are "worthy" of support

Otherwise the Tory party would have been kept out of office ever since 1979

That is just your opinion though.

You might think the Tories were not worthy of support but more people disagreed with you than agreed

The bottom line is you know Labour are unelectable but continue to make excuses for that, which hands the power to the Tories

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 19:10

afaik, noone here was posting a Corbyn / Milne conspiracy theory

Just that Labour, like every other group in the HoC - including the Tories - is not prepared to sacrifice its own interests & beliefs to get this country out of the hole that successive bungling Tory PMs have dug for it.

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PotterHead1985 · 28/10/2019 19:11

I've put classic FM on now. My flu associated headache is done with the shouting and needs some relaxing smooth classics. Until tomorrow when more shouting!!!

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 19:15

Bear The number of votes has nothing to do with "worthiness"

I accept that Leave won the ref; I refuse to believe they or their arguments were more worthy
Ditto wrt the Tories
... although iirc they haven't won a majority of more than 21 since MrsT's GE victory in 1987

Just because a party or issue gets more votes is no reason for everyone else to give up and join the other side

Why on earth should I help the Tories get through policies which I despise, or sit back and let them ?

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thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 19:16

Well, I think we'll have to agree to disagree on that? Bear.

I'm sure you know that I think a Party with Johnson as it's Leader (who has connived in planning to have a journalist beaten up, has perhaps defrauded Londoners whilst in office, and has sacked 21 of his MPs), that created the conditions for Grenfell, has presided over 'austerity' isn't the most worthy Party to hold power.

🤷‍♀️

It's just one of those things.

Even if they win a GE, I won't change my view. It's an ethics thing - that's where my personal ethics lie. And if they win the next HE, all it will mean is that my ethics are not the same as those of many others in the UK.

CurlyWurlyTwirly · 28/10/2019 19:17

Just how can the Tories “guarantee” no No Deal Brexit.
It is a trap door, post Brexit, that if negotiations fail during the transition phase ( after Brexit date), the UK, will just default to a no deal.

I fear we are going to have the worst of every world; A Tory government; have left the EU, and no trade deal agreed, so there is a no deal Brexit because the Tories use their majority to block every negotiation.
5 years to trash the country...

placemats · 28/10/2019 19:18

So the Queen's speech has been abandoned.

The WAB has been abandoned.

Single bill for a GE on the 12th Dec to be pushed through Parliament and the HOLs.

Utter shambles of a Government. Let Boris Johnson sweat it out, is my view. He dug this ditch. Him and him alone.

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 19:18

Why on earth should I help the Tories get through policies which I despise, or sit back and let them ?

No one is asking you to

But surely if you feel that strongly against them you should be furious that the opposition doesn’t actually.....oppose

I’ve said this before but it makes no sense to me to despise the Tories and anyone who actively supports them so much yet be so apathetic about the fact the opposition is passively handing them power

placemats · 28/10/2019 19:20

Does any Parliamentarian on the opposition benches trust Boris Johnson?

Miljah · 28/10/2019 19:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 19:21

Trump’s Plan for the NHS that red referred to is frightening Sad

and an example of what I'd continue to oppose,
even if the Tories get more votes and hence "worthiness", according to bear

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placemats · 28/10/2019 19:21

But Bear They are opposing. Just not in the way you want them to.

Plus ca change...

tobee · 28/10/2019 19:23

Satire at its most subtle:-

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch
GhostofFrankGrimes · 28/10/2019 19:24

Maybe we should ask why ordinary people are still content to vote Tory when 10 years of austerity has ripped through communities. We are still perplexed as to why ordinary people are still supporting brexit when the evidence of the negative impacts has been available for 3 years.

The answer isn't "because Corbyn".

Basilpots · 28/10/2019 19:24

Does any Parliamentarian on the opposition benches trust Boris Johnson?

Not sure any of them do on his benches either. Not one tried to defend the attacks on his trustworthiness tonight.

borntobequiet · 28/10/2019 19:26

It’s unusual to get insults slung around on these threads, and they tend to occur around party political polarised themes. Which is odd as mostly people who support different parties tend to rub along well and not get into fights. The on/off lovefest between BCF and Poster being one example (hope I have the right protagonists here).

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 19:27

Bear We've frequently bemoaned what a useless leader Corbyn has been
but there are only so many hundred times that can be posted

I have no way to increase his brain cells, his energy or backbone

There is no prospect of him being replaced before a GE, barring serious illness / tragedy

Looking at his obvious replacements - Starmer, Benn & co:
they don't seem to have any better strategy of what to do next

They are among the most opposed to an early GE
Starmer still seems to want a PV, which I don't think feasible

I've read their plan is to seize control of the HoC agenda again and try to force BJ to carry out the actions they want
tbh, that prospect just fills me with dread

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 19:33

"The on/off lovefest between BCF and Poster"

A mutual shudder, I'm sure 😂

We have very different politics, but we share some basic ethical beliefs / policies
e.g. we are both appalled at the cruel treatment of the disabled by the Tory govt

I expect most Westministenders share core values, but also value facts & analyses
I don't go near The Other Place, because in much earlier lurks, I saw nothing there to learn

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placemats · 28/10/2019 19:35

I've read their plan is to seize control of the HoC agenda again and try to force BJ to carry out the actions they want

But that is what the opposition is supposed to do!

The Tories just peddle the same old, same old. The opposition is thwarting the will of the people by not giving in to toddler tantrums letting Johnson get his way. May's bill was defeated, twice and when there was a majority, slim albeit.

Anyway, I for one will not be expecting the UK to blow up on November 1st. Such hyperbole!

Voila212 · 28/10/2019 19:37

I haven't watched anything about brexit in a few days as I was brexitted out of it. Can someone explain to me why the vote for an election failed today but more then likely pass tomorrow. I'm not British so trying to figure it out.