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Brexit

Westministenders: The weasel DIDN'T die in a ditch

975 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 11:59

The EU has decided to grant the UK's request for an extension until 31 January.

This will be a "flextension",
i.e. if the WA is approved by the UK and EU Parliaments before that date, then we will leave earlier.

and .... despite all his blustering promises, the weasel BJ lives on,
preening his whiskers in self-love.

The more gullible Brexiters haven't yet twigged that he lies and lies.
And lies....

Meanwhile, another attempt by the UK to decide what to do:

From 2:30 pm today, MPs will debate whether to allow a GE on 12 December

This is a govt motion under the FTPA, which means BJ requires the votes of ⅔ of all MPs - that's 434

Hence he would need Labour support.

BJ's condition for a GE on this date is that MPs agree to pass the WA / WAB by 7 November,
which is the last day before Parliament would be automatically dissolved before the GE.

Corbyn said he'll only agree to a GE if BJ takes No Deal off the table.
This cannot be made legally binding, but as noone would take the word of a lying weasel, it is difficult for this condition to be satisfied.

Polls suggest that a GE after Brexit would be likely to give the Tories significantly more votes & seats than a GE before.
Both Labour & Tory want to game GE timing to their advantage.

Also, most Labour MPs are opposed to a GE after Brexit, for fear of losing the votes of millions of angry Labour Remainers - and their own seats.

A few on the Labour left do want a GE asap,
but Nick Brown, Labour’s chief whip, has warned Corbyn that many MPs would disobey orders to vote for 12 December.

Hence, BJ is expected to lose yet another HoC vote.
If so, reports suggest that the Cabinet are split over what to do next:

Some ministers, e.g. Gavin Williamson, want to agree to the SNP / LDem proposal to hold a GE on 9 December.

This would be via an amendment to the FTPA or a separate 1-line Act
and hence would require only a simple majority of MPs present
It would also be the last chance logistically for a GE before mid-February.
BUT
would require BJ to abandon attempts to pass the WAB before this.

Also, such a bill would be amendable and Tories fear the type of amendments could be added
e.g. a CU, or votes for 16-year-olds.

Hence other ministers and the Tory chairman James Cleverley oppose this idea.

It is unknown how BJ will decide.
His record is of aggressive bluster, then caving in at the last moment, while pretending he has won.

The EU have saved our bacon yet again, but may be running out of eye rolls "Please don't waste this time"

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RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 18:32

John Rentoul @johnrentoul
The interesting bit is not the result of this vote, expected just after 7pm, but whether PM speaks immediately about his next steps

Will he press on with his Brexit bill, or will he try to get an election via legislation, needing a simple majority rather than 2/3 vote?

Sebastian Payne@SebastianePayne
This is how Plan B for a general election before Christmas is shaping up:

1. Boris Johnson loses the FTPA vote tonight, expected around 7pm.

2. PM will then make a point of order, where he is expected to set out a one-clause bill for an election between 9-12th December.

3. The government's bill will be modeled on Liberal Democrat/SNP effort but with a different date. Lib Dem sources suggested earlier they'd back it the bill if it doesn't have Dec 9 date, but there's been some wrangling with No10 today.

Laura Kuenssberg @bbclaurak
No one quite sure what happens if Johnson’s election vote fails threshold tonight

Govt expected to put down one line bill to try again tmrw with lib dem and snp support - but fair number of MPs in commons tonight scratching heads now over how solid that support really is

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 18:32

John Rentoul @johnrentoul
DUP not voting for an election tonight, says Sammy Wilson

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 18:33

I think the idea that Corbyn is going for No Deal is paranoid.

It really is.

It's delivering yourselves into the hands of the cranks. Don't do it to yourself.

If it happens, it won't be because Corbyn or Labour want it.

(And I'm no Corbyn fan.)

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 18:34

"DUP are still cross then...."

Being dumped in the Irish Sea will do that to you

btw, Can any Irish Westministenders say what Unionists think of the DUP decision to back Brexit
and also their performance since then ? Hmm

If I were a Unionist, I'd be booting them out on their collective DUPed arse for their Baldrick-level planning.

Yes the Tories lied to them
Yes BJ lied to them again only weeks ago
But the DUPes were stupid enough to believe them ? Confused

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BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 18:36

iirc, from current NI polls, it is expected that 2-3 DUP seats would be in danger at a GE

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thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 18:37

My personal feeling is that No Deal would deliver us a decade of right-wing governments.

And if I can think that, I'm sure there are one or two in Labour who can imagine that too.

☹️

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 18:38

Channel 4 dispatches @ c4dispatches
THREAD: 1/10 Dispatches has found that secret meetings have taken place between senior civil servants and representatives of US pharmaceutical firms where the price the NHS pays for its drugs has been discussed.

2/10 A source with knowledge of the trade talks told Dispatches that British trade negotiators have already held six official meetings with their US counterparts to talk about what might be in any trade deal.

3/10 Precise details of what has been discussed has been kept strictly confidential. But a Whitehall source has told us that drug pricing has been on the table in all six meetings.

4/10 The source told Dispatches how US drugs firms have been given direct access to British trade officials.

5/10 Dispatches has been told that as well as meeting with the US government, senior British trade officials have held face-to-face meetings with representatives of US drug firms, none of which have been declared.

6/10 Our source also told us that there have been five secret meetings between senior British civil servants and the US pharma industry. Two in Washington and three in London.

7/10 The most recent being in August after Boris Johnson had become Prime Minister. The source told us that drug “price caps” were discussed in at least one of these meetings.

8/10 We asked the Department for International Trade for a response on what we’ve discovered.

9/10 They said: “The sustainability of the NHS is an absolute priority for the government. We could not agree to any proposals or medicines pricing or access that would put NHS finances at risk or reduce clinician and patient choice.”

10/10 On Dispatches, we discover how the President’s allies and US drug giants want to force the NHS to pay more for US medicines.

WATCH: Trump’s Plan for the NHS. Tonight at 8pm on Channel 4.

thecatfromjapan · 28/10/2019 18:38

Baldric-level planning

That has given me one of the only smiles I've had today.

💐

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 18:39

I think the idea that Corbyn is going for No Deal is paranoid.

What about Milne though?

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 18:40

My personal feeling is that No Deal would deliver us a decade of right-wing governments

No deal would only happen if we had already signed up to 5 years of a right wing government and I think the fall out would destroy them for a lot of years to come

prettybird · 28/10/2019 18:41

It's also interesting that the simple motion doesn't define the date of the GE - that's in a separate statement from BJ Hmm

....like he can be trusted Confused

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 28/10/2019 18:42

A DF of mine who is a unionist has always stated the DUP never really did represent the views of most unionists.

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 18:43

Robert Peston@peston
Three things. 1) Government may need to go for 12 Dec election because has to pass NI budget this week to keep schools and public services in province open, and LibDem’s 9 Dec would not give enough time before dissolution to pass that budget. 2) The PM will...

decide in just a few minutes that he cannot restart debate on his Brexit law, the Withdrawal Agreement Bill, before an election. He gave Labour and rebel Tory MPs till 6 to give him a pledge they would support the bill on truncated timetable. No sign of them doing that. And...

3) there has been concern that any December election would be hugely difficult for campaigners, because new electoral roll is set to be introduced 4 December. However I am told Cabinet Office would take steps to speed up publication of new electoral roll

Sebastian Payne@SebastianePayne
Increasing chatter that Labour may back the government's impending bill for an election:

"It falls on not wanting an election but it becomes inevitable if Tories back Lib Dem bill. We can’t go into an election having not backed it," said one party official.

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 28/10/2019 18:44

Where is everyone? Having dinner? Should they not have to listen to the debate before voting?

PotterHead1985 · 28/10/2019 18:46

Devision

PotterHead1985 · 28/10/2019 18:47

Mammy wants to know BumbusWHAT?

tobee · 28/10/2019 18:49

Ruth & Mark in vision!!!😍😍

BigChocFrenzy · 28/10/2019 18:50

thecat Why the disbelief that Corbyn is not morally superior to Cameron ?
I don't have such a starry-eyed view of him

This whole Brexshit happened because Cameron as PM gambled the future of the country just to sort out an internal Tory party squabble

Corbyn refusing a GE at a bad time for Labour is not as immoral

  • a "sin of omission" rather than a "sin of commission"

Corbyn almost certainly does NOT want No Deal, but is not prepared to sacrifice Labour MPs to stop it

He'll also remember what happened when Gordon Brown helped Cameron on the Scottish Indie ref:
Labour suffered for putting the country first; the Tories benefitted.

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PotterHead1985 · 28/10/2019 18:50

Very small vision mind!

dontcallmelen · 28/10/2019 18:51

Red hope you feel better very soon💐

Basilpots · 28/10/2019 18:52

Posts look fine to me BCF I appreciate short paragraphs. Grin

RedToothBrush · 28/10/2019 18:52

Nick Eardley @nickeardleybbc
MPs voting now. Government won’t get 2/3 it needs.... but watch for any words from PM and others on what next (ie tomorrow)

placemats · 28/10/2019 18:52

Bercows They are probably ignoring the big toddler tantrum in the room. Rightly so.

Bearbehind · 28/10/2019 18:52

Corbyn almost certainly does NOT want No Deal, but is not prepared to sacrifice Labour MPs to stop it

That makes no sense to me - if he and his party were worthy of supporting then no one would need to be sacrificed!

OublietteBravo · 28/10/2019 18:52

Another PMK - I’m following via this thread as I can’t get BBC Parliament here.

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