Westministenders: Conference Cult

[RedToothBrush]

Is it over yet?

The Tory Party Conference is in full swing in the Manchester Rain, and is proving to be its usual fun.

Johnson is caught up in all sorts of allegations of abuses of power - the non-declaration of his "friendship" to a busty blonde whom was getting a large tax payer grant, and then there the Odey question after his sister said he was under the control of the Hedge Funders.

And thats before we talk about the 40 hospitals, his provocative language and how many times he can say the word surrender.

There is lots of distancing from Lyton Crosby. And accusations that Johnson has gone 'rogue' only listening to the wisdom of Cummings and Symonds.

The Queen apparently has asked for advice as to under what circumstance she can dismiss a PM.

AND NO ONE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT A DEAL.

mathanxiety
Rdoo I think that Fine Gael are trying really hard to avoid accusations of 'selling out' (to harken back to the Treaty negotiations and the Irish Civil War) partly because they are sensitive to perceptions arising from quite distant history.

Always thought it had a lot to do with the age of Varadkar, Coveney and co. I've always felt older Irish generations had a hang up about Britain, felt inferior to them, that I don't think the younger generations have.

More raw data from YouGov from that poll

d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/mgv6oms6dw/TheTimes_191001_VI_Trackers_w.pdf

10% of people asked would not vote
16% of people asked did not know how they would vote

The resentment will simmer and there might well be a large Tory win at the following GE, under a manifesto to Leave, no referendum

I agree that that's a danger. The almost complete clean sweep by the SNP in 2015 was (arguably) a direct consequence of losing the Indyref in 2014

This is what exasperates me:

LDems compromised their principles for nearly 5 years, when it came to gaining power, gaining ministerial salaries & chauffered limos
They abandoned students, abandoned many vulnerable people on benefits

but even a week or so of Corbyn as PM is an unacceptable compromise ?

BigChoc are you saying that if the Conservatives revoke they would then win a GE with a pledge to just leave without a referendum ? So trigger article 50 again ?

pretty You read my mind !
I was thinking of Scotland and Nationalists feeling they had been robbed

Michael Dougan @mdouganlpool
Corbyn thus quite right to say this Johnson plan is far worse than what May had negotiated. And I agree: any Labour MP thinking of supporting such a damaging & disruptive plan for NI/IRL, leading only to future uncertainty and blank cheque for hard right, should ponder own values.

mobile.twitter.com/mdouganlpool/status/1179474435008430080

LDems compromised their principles for nearly 5 years, when it came to gaining power, gaining ministerial salaries & chauffered limos
They abandoned students, abandoned many vulnerable people on benefits

but even a week or so of Corbyn as PM is an unacceptable compromise ?

Exactly this!

frumpety regardless of whether the PV was from a GNU before a GE, or by Labour / Ldems after a GE win,
I think the Tories would put Brexit in their manifesto, without a referendum, probably without a deal
(or maybe the figleaf of this one BJ has just proposed)

Whether they would win that GE ?
They'd v likely win if the GE was after a GNU
If the GE was after a Labour govt had a term in office, depends how well they did

The 2 years in A50 is a maximum not a minimum, so the Tories could invoke and leave the next day

So one Lib Dem MP thinks that Corbyn might not be a remainer and might not want to stop Brexit , which is the Lib Dem policy ? One MP and suddenly that means that the whole party think the same way ? People on here don't generally do that with the Tories or Labour so why the Lib Dem's ?
Not saying he is right or wrong , just intrigued by the response.

Why on earth wasn't the GFA and border issue accounted for when Article 50 was written? Surely there should have been acknowledgment at least of the special circumstances concerning the UK, and a caveat put in place to say that should the UK leave, then there should be steps in place to protect the GFA and prevent a hard border BEFORE the UK or Ireland can trigger article 50? Did no one think ahead? Or did they just assume neither country would be stupid enough to want to leave?

but even a week or so of Corbyn as PM is an unacceptable compromise ?

Some of them left the party, very likely sacrificing their careers, because they considered him so unsuitable to be PM.

While I personally would accept him as temporary PM (even though he's useless) I certainly wouldn't expect a Jewish woman who left the LP because of antisemitism in the leadership to do so! And I think it's borderline racist to suggest that they should.

Others may have good reasons too.

But that's all irrelevant anyway because it's the Tory rebels whose votes that JC would need to be sure of winning the confidence of the house. And I don't think any/enough of them will support JC.

Well tbf - there aren't that many Lib Dems in parliament. So this is one MP - plus their leader who categorically will not work with Corbyn.

I'm not writing them off - I'm just advocating writing to them and explaining why their leader stated position does not look good.

How much has Boris offered the DUP?

Or did they just assume neither country would be stupid enough to want to leave?

The man who wrote A50 is British (Lord Kerr I think). I believe he has stated that at the time of writing they never believed that any country would ever trigger it - and if they did it would be a dictatorship leaving in a huff. No one ever dreamed it would be the UK.

Corbyn is unfit to be Prime Minister
but less unfit that the current incumbent
therefore EVERY politician should suck it up and do the right thing
for the country
and then go back to party politics
once the Country is out of immediate No Deal Brexit danger
then they can bicker over Climate change

afaik, it's Swinson and the official party line to say no to Corbyn

With only 4 weeks to go, leaving BJ in office risks No Deal and the nearer we get to 31 October, the higher the risk
Yes, it would be easier if he stepped aside, but with 247 MPs to her 18, she looks very up herself.

Her objection seems to be that he refuses to say now whether he would campaign for Remain against a PD that he - or rather Starmer - would negotiate after a Labour win
After the FOM concession, that PD would be a soft Brexit, which might be a compromise that could bring the country together
So I find it very extreme that she won't even accept he wants to keep that possibility open.
afaik, all Labour MPs would be free to campaign for Remain if they wished

"I think it's borderline racist to suggest that they should."

I strongly disagree

"How much has Boris offered the DUP?"
He's basically given them a veto and a chance to destroy GFA while they still have their slender majority

and I was merely answering the question about the LDems

The rebel Tories are why I said it would be much easier if he stood aside

However, if everyone in the Rebel Alliance stands on their high horse, then No Deal is quite possible

"Why on earth wasn't the GFA and border issue accounted for when Article 50 was written? "
I think A50 was written before GFA

It really is marvellous isn't it , we have one party who want to stop Brexit and one party who, did they come to a conclusion at their PC ? I have a feeling they did, but Corbyn decided to sit on the fence as is his right, so the party agreed to something but the leader will not categorically support it ? And you are cross with the party who wants to stop Brexit ?

Assuming the 288 Tories, 10 DUP and those against a Corbyn GNU vote against, and EVERY OTHER MP, including Swinson, votes for it, Corbyn would lose by 339 votes to 303.

"Why on earth wasn't the GFA and border issue accounted for when Article 50 was written? "
I think A50 was written before GFA

GFA signed 1998.
Lisbon Treaty written in 2002/2003, in effect 2009.