Westministenders: Conference Cult

[RedToothBrush]

Is it over yet?

The Tory Party Conference is in full swing in the Manchester Rain, and is proving to be its usual fun.

Johnson is caught up in all sorts of allegations of abuses of power - the non-declaration of his "friendship" to a busty blonde whom was getting a large tax payer grant, and then there the Odey question after his sister said he was under the control of the Hedge Funders.

And thats before we talk about the 40 hospitals, his provocative language and how many times he can say the word surrender.

There is lots of distancing from Lyton Crosby. And accusations that Johnson has gone 'rogue' only listening to the wisdom of Cummings and Symonds.

The Queen apparently has asked for advice as to under what circumstance she can dismiss a PM.

AND NO ONE IS EVEN TALKING ABOUT A DEAL.

As one who used to work in IT before I retired, I got fed up of seeing Contractors - who were really people on fixed term contracts of three years or so - getting paid a good deal more.

As one of those contractors, I got fed up with employees moaning when I had no job security, paid holiday or sick leave.

Well, if you had a three year contract, that was a reasonable amount of security. The contractors I was talking about were on enough to cover periods of sick leave or holiday pay. Otherwise they would have been applying for full time jobs on the payroll smartish.

Ghost in your opinion what were the ‘right horses’?

It was never going to be a party that propped up the Tories and helped enable austerity. The cuts were one of the reasons people voted Brexit. Change UK were always going to be a joke.

Attempting to defeat Brexit was always going to be a long game, allowing the Tories to lurch from one crisis to another and for people to see how bad leaving would be. Not a magic solution but better than falling into a trap in which remainers were labelled out of touch, middle class, metropolitian.

No three year contracts in my industry. I was always on a week’s notice.

No three year contracts in my industry. I was always on a week’s notice.
Fair enough in that case, but I really did know people who were on three year contracts. Perhaps I should add - Government IT projects.

I'm so sick of everything being about Brexit as if that'll be it, done and dusted. What about what it'll be like for the next 5 years? Ten years? 20 years? 30 years? As if the effects of leaving with no deal being time limited.

Incidentally, has anyone else found recently that it's hard two find 2 pint bottles of semi skimmed milk? You can find 1 pint bottles and huge 4 pint bottles, and two pints of full fat or skimmed. It's a bit weird! It can't be anything to do with Brexit, surely?

Five or so minutes after BJ finished his conference speech, I received an email from the Conservative Party, (not a member or subscriber, but that is another issue with data compliance complaint pending) or more specifically from BJ. The email was asking for a donation to the "Get Brexit Done" fund!
Why would they need for this if:

a) there is a deal and we leave on 31st October
b) there is no deal and we leave on the 31st October, "Do or Die", "dead in a ditch"?
Maybe I'm wrong, but seems that BJ isn't quite so confident about the 31st October!

Listened to Brexitcast earlier and they spoke to a Leaver who was talking about fishing rights. The interviewing Brexitcaster was explaining that the definition of territorial waters is set by the UN and therefore randomly extending that (as the Leaver claimed could happen) would mean leaving the UN also. "Fine!!"

On that basis we'll be applying to leave the Solar System in 2022 and the galaxy by 2040

tobee I had the same at the weekend, no two pints of semi skimmed anywhere very odd.

There is just one thing I've been thinking today.
Johnson might do some trickery to get us out of the EU. Who knows..

But what would the long term damage be to the Conservative party from those people who would feel tricked and let down if they did that and didn't forgive them?

It's one heck of a gamble if they do some trickery. Yes, they get to leave the EU but would it be a Pyrhic victory?

I see I was asked upthread who were the Remainers who preferred No Deal to Corbyn

Answer: at least this LDem MP

it’s no deal over a Corbyn led interim government ‘every time’ according to MP @Jamie4North"

I wonder how many more

• I also see Remainers here who would insist on a PV and risk No Deal rather than compromise With the country so split, the strategy should always have been compromise and still should be, instead of hardliners on both sides still traying for winner-take-all

It's one heck of a gamble if they do some trickery. Yes, they get to leave the EU but would it be a Pyrhic victory?

Yes, I agree. If it's to be done, it has to be done in a manner which is above board.

As for things like the LibDems saying they will revoke - in the extremely unlikely event that they won enough seats to form a Government, then it would be above board because it would be a Manifesto pledge and they would have a mandate. I honestly don't think the average Leaver would care too much, if there was the will to tackle people's day to day problems.

choma In a GE, the Tories can win with 31% and get a big majority with the 34% they were predicted in the last poll
So they don't care about the other voters they piss off

Sad Place Mark
to depressed by it all to read up fully

Our political "leaders" do not think they are bound by the law
their Vulture capitalist backers do not give a shit about 99.99% of the population
and Greta is still right

I always remember going on a Demo against cuts in Education back in the early 90s when Major won his election, for which I felt utter despair. Someone, who must have voted Tory, was holding a placard with a picture of scissors on which said "This is not what we voted for." Setting aside the fact that it was what they voted for, the Tories were absolutely thrashed in 1997, so I hope something similar happens this time.

But then, first John Smith and later Blair, made Labour electable. Where is a present day John Smith going to come from?

peregrina Yep, winning a GE gives a mandate for manifesto policies
Even the HoC will only vote them down once iirc unlike policies not in the manifesto

BUT, I disagree that "the average Leaver won't care" if Revoke happens, whether after a PV or not

Brexit seems a symbol for them:

they beat the "elite" and they are getting increasingly pissed that they are being "robbed" of their victory.
A PV is to them like rerunning a GE because the losing side won't accept the result

Even the highly educated who understand we have a Parliamentary system can't emotionally accept Parliament has the right to delay Brexit and especially not to try to bring back Remain

However, imo the type of Leave is nowhere near as important as the symbolic victory
So a soft Brexit with SM & a Customs arrangement would be sellable to all except the most extreme nationalist fringe (or the even tinier hedge-fund fringe)

Don't forget Neil Kinnock also did a great deal to detoxify Labour

There are still plenty of Labour MPs who are capable of giving us hope but with Len McCluskey still being kingmaker, they don't stand a chance. Stupid asshat.

Manfred Weberr✔@ManfredWeber* (leader EPP group EP)

After 3 years of uncertainty the UK has finally come forward with concrete proposals.

At first sight they throw most of our previous agreements out of the window.
A border will be a reality in Ireland and our single market is cherry picked.

Very worrying.

#Brexit

BUT, I disagree that "the average Leaver won't care" if Revoke happens,

I think they will initially care very much, but I don't think that the average leaver will take to the streets, the hardcore element will, because in reality that's what they want, an opportunity to kick off and to be seen to be kicking off. It will be short lived, not least because people don't like the cold and wet when partaking in a spot of antisocial behaviour. Then of course dear Priti has promised to come down very hard indeed on those who attack the police/ commit violent crime. I guess if they can rouse the rabble to peaceful protest they should be fine.
Most people will think 'thank fuck that is over' or mutter 'bastards' and get on with their lives. The tricky bit of course will be the entire country looking to the Conservatives to deliver their recent pledges. A GE where they lose will mean they don't have to ?

Just because most Leavers won't get violent does not mean they will accept it, or get over it

The resentment will simmer and there might well be a large Tory win at the following GE, under a manifesto to Leave, no referendum

Under FPTP, Tories only need to add Lexiters and normal non-voters to their core to get a stonking majority

[email protected]

That's the email of the Lib Dem who prefers no deal to compromising with Corbyn ... if anyone wants to get in touch and tell him his view is not acceptable for the ordinary people who will suffer the effects of no deal the worst.

Also
[email protected]

If you want to go to the very top.

Please remind them they were willing to work with the tories for five years, support their crippling austerity measures which brought about the conditions which made a leave win achievable in the first place ... but they won't work with Corbyn for what could be as short a time as a few days to get an extension and call a GE?