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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 13:47

If there was one item I would stockpile, it would be toilet paper”

Surely there's no shortage of "life will be wonderful" Brexiteer leaflets ? Or Wetherspoons beermats.

Anyway, why are Brits so obsessed with toilet paper ? It is possible to use a sponge and water ...

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 13:55

Anyway, why are Brits so obsessed with toilet paper ? It is possible to use a sponge and water ...

Convenience? Small children / people with sensory issues who'd baulk at the idea of a sponge and water? Cultural preference?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 13:55

Barclay: Why the UK hasn’t presented any specific backstop proposal to the EU

Because the "Alternative Arrangements" require border checks
Duh 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️
The whole point of the backstop, which AA must reproduce is to avoid any fucking checks on goods travelling within the island of Ireland

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/why-the-uk-hasnt-presented-any-specific-backstop-proposal-to-the-eu/

The EU side regularly points out that the UK government hasn’t presented any detailed proposals on what it wants to replace the backstop with.

At a Cabinet committee meeting this week, the Brexit Secretary Steve Barclay set about explaining to ministerial colleagues why this was
.....the EU had set three tests for any new proposal

First, it must avoid any infrastructure on the border that would be incompatible with the Good Friday Agreement.

Second, it must protect the integrity of the EU’s single market.

Third, it mustn’t involve any checks on the island of Ireland.

Barclay said that the UK could meet the first two of these tests, but not the third.

He said that there was no point in presenting any detailed proposals until the EU shifted on the question of checks

Tanith · 16/09/2019 13:58

Anyway, why are Brits so obsessed with toilet paper ? It is possible to use a sponge and water ...

I remember my granny and great-Aunt telling us all about how they would cut up newspaper for toilet roll years ago. They used pinking shears if they were expecting company Grin

"'Course, you couldn't do it now," my granny said, "Not with all that print!"

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 13:58

"It is possible"

Yes, but within a Western country it would only happen during a major disaster scenario
Like Project Fear Reality has been warning about

It would make it obvious to most people what a disaster No Deal is, instead of the "clean break" they've been promised.

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 14:03

I seem to recall hysterical scepticism from the BeLeaver contingent when it was suggested water supplies might be at risk.

Just wait until a significant proportion of the population has been using whatever it can find to wipe it's collective arse and shoving that down the u-bend if you want to see what a water catastrophe looks like.

Tanith · 16/09/2019 14:06

I'm dubious about taking any advice on prepping from the Telegraph, anyway. They're scarcely impartial.

I'm also wondering what dear old BJ is desperately trying to divert attention from.
A bridge and a Hulk reference! Nicely filled headlines, there! Instead of...what, I wonder?

I hope to goodness someone behind the scenes is saying "Yes, dear - you can turn green and swell up like a bullfrog if it makes you happy, but we still need to talk about the back stop."

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 14:08

Oh, I'd take heed of stories that slip between the cracks of the Telegraph's gungho Brexshittery
A few journalist with a conscience warning leaders about arse wipes ....

Apileofballyhoo · 16/09/2019 14:09

Maybe with the lack of food fruit and veg, people won't need as much toilet paper.

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 14:09

Weren't the prison ships they moored offshore called "hulks" ?

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 14:11

Uk govt pissing off everyone
Another clash with the EP last week, who are angry about their E27 expats:

Nick Gutteridge@nick_gutteridge

MEPs' Brexit coordinator and Home Office minister clash over UK's Settled Status scheme for EU citizens.

Guy Verhofstadt brands its performance 'unacceptable' and says 'urgent changes are needed'.

Brandon Lewis hits back it's 'working well' and suggests he's 'misleading people'.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 14:12

Yes, during the Napoleonic wars, French POWs were kept in hulks moored offshore

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 14:14

I'm guessing the strangely unBritish "Hulk" reference was an attempt to make some sort of relevance to US commentators. And as Mark Ruffalos retort shows they managed to fuck that up too.

But then suggesting that Boris is like Biggles, or Dan Dare is probably a bit too elitist, whilst suggesting he's like James Bond is really too much of an open goal.

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
berlinbabylon · 16/09/2019 14:15

We kept plenty of our own in prison hulks too. Usually for things like stealing a loaf of bread or poaching a rabbit.

TheABC · 16/09/2019 14:15

This prorogation thing really is not going well, is it? With no MPs or legislative action, the spotlight is firmly on the Government and turning critical.

Johnson turning green and swelling requires brain bleach. Again. I should fucking stockpile the stuff.

ImNotYourGranny · 16/09/2019 14:15

pmk

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 14:17

"Coup D' eTwat" ! 😂😂

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 14:18

Yes, during the Napoleonic wars, French POWs were kept in hulks moored offshore

As was Napoleon himself, I recall. The government were terrified our own side would release him as he was actually quite popular with "the masses" Hmm

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 14:20

Maybe with the lack of food fruit and veg, people won't need as much toilet paper.

May years ago a friends DB was in the army and said that rations "AB biscuits" were called "Anal Blockage biscuits" because .... that's what they did.

Apparently it explained why there were days between attacks during the Falklands ....

DeRigueurMortis · 16/09/2019 14:40

PMK

Hasenstein · 16/09/2019 14:40

DS1 went through an entire Glastonbury festival without bowel evacuation (got within 50 yards of bogs and gave up in horror), so there's plenty of scope for cutting down on loo roll.

kingsassassin · 16/09/2019 14:43

PMK. Maybe the government is investing heavily in dwarf bread - Rock-hard (and indeed contains various rocks such as gravel), never goes stale, and is terribly sustaining. A traveller can go for miles, just knowing there's dwarf bread in their pack.

A traveller can think of just about anything to eat rather than dwarf bread, including their own foot (see Witches Abroad).

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 14:47

Maybe the government is investing heavily in dwarf bread

Is that akin to stone soup ?

RedToothBrush · 16/09/2019 14:48

Anyway, why are Brits so obsessed with toilet paper ? It is possible to use a sponge and water ...

You what?!!!!!

I can imagine my 5 year old deciding it doubles as a painting set!

No. Just no.

adds more bog roll to the stockpiling list, along with chocolate and tonic water.

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RedToothBrush · 16/09/2019 14:49

We kept plenty of our own in prison hulks too. Usually for things like stealing a loaf of bread or poaching a rabbit.

Sending to Gibraltar was a favourite too. We can still do that.

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