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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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CrunchyCarrot · 17/09/2019 13:13

So apparently Johnson hasn't prepared a witness statement for the Court?? Wow.

MrPan · 17/09/2019 13:14

Of course, but are we considering the chances of Johnson lifting the prorougingness at the first opportunity?
Nope. I am still doubting he ever will, whatever the Diane Ross Court decide.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 13:14

If the decision is that BJ has acted illegally, what happens next ?

Probably not much chance of shame working to make him do the right thing on his own

MrPan · 17/09/2019 13:15

Statement? Is this further evidence he will not be abiding by any decision. Is there a power of arrest for not following SC decision?

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 13:15

Does it give Bercow the power to order that Parliament resume - and actually make it happen ?

prettybird · 17/09/2019 13:16

Dh is getting annoyed at the little vignettes that Sky is using to describe each Law Lord. He has a point.

If they are from Scotland or Wales (haven't seen an NI one yet), then that fact is highlighted. But no mention of the fact that a Law Lord is English. Confused

It's the institutional assumption that "English" is the norm and Welsh, Scottish and NI are the aberrations exception. Hmm

Disclaimer: I'm not suggesting that the Supreme Court is institutionally biased. My issue is more with the subconscious assumption of the MSM.

MockersthefeMANist · 17/09/2019 13:20

If you stuck with the SC procedings rather than turn over to the Daily Politics, well done, you missed Mark Francois.

Quite how it is possible to cram so many negative qualities into one human frame is a wonder of evolution and its capacity for mutation: Smug, sarcastic, arrogant, conceited, hypocritically constantly interrupting others when not howling victimhood when he cannot deliver his own treatises at length, all topped off with some exceptionally nasty personal abuse of Sam Gymah down the line.

If there is a Hell, they must all be praying for a miracle redemption of Francois so they don't have to put up with him for the rest of eternity.

Vile Man.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 17/09/2019 13:20

Fucking idiots singing 'Bye Bye EU Bye bye EU'

Imbeciles

tobee · 17/09/2019 13:23

Who was Just?

tobee · 17/09/2019 13:23

Actually do I want to know? Hmm

ListeningQuietly · 17/09/2019 13:26

I met the Government's lead QC (David Eadie) many times when I was a kid.
Cannot for the life of me remember what he was like though Grin

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 17/09/2019 13:27

Crunchy

I wonder why. I can see two possibilities
1 - he might see a witness statement as an acknowledgement that this is a justiciable issue

Or

2 - he can’t write what he wants and swear the statement of truth at the end with his fingers crossed

Songsofexperience · 17/09/2019 13:28

Derail but I have to share this:

www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/sep/17/uk-fresh-food-imports-areas-at-risk-climate-crisis-mps-warn

Add No Deal to the above and it's a recipe for disaster (sorry to be the harbinger of doom...)

JustAnotherPoster00 · 17/09/2019 13:30

Im on the guardian news youtube and you got some people now shouting traitors, they dont sound very bright, one just said 'you should be hung drawn and quartered' I fucking despair I really do

JustAnotherPoster00 · 17/09/2019 13:31

I now know what it must have sounded like during public hangings

RedToothBrush · 17/09/2019 13:31

Bad news folks.

Sam Coates Sky @samcoatessky
NEW: YouGov

Boris Johnson's latest favourability rating up in the last three weeks

Boris Johnson
Favourable 38 (+2)
Unfavourable 54 (+1)
DK 9 (-2)

Jeremy Corbyn
Favourable 21 (+2)
Unfavourable 70 (+2)
DK 10 (-3)

1,575 GB adults
Sept 16-17

(compared to Aug 26-27)

YouGov cont:

Jo Swinson
Favourable 26 (+9)
Unfavourable 38 (+3)
DK 37 (-11)

YouGov cont:

91% of current Tory voters favourable towards Boris Johnson
75% of current Lab voters favourable towards Jeremy Corbyn
78% of current LDem voters favourable to Jo Swinson

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JeSuisPoulet · 17/09/2019 13:31

I'm not keeping up with the Court drama today, lots of plumbers, painters and plasterers everywhere and tip runs ongoing!
BoZo didn't prepare? what a surprise!

Have been hearing a lot of "it's remainers' fault if we have issues because we should have JUST LEFT" - people who still cannot see why we didn't immediately sever all ties and refuse to believe this will take time and resources from our side to prop up gaps. On the plus side I now have use of another fridge and freezer to stockpile into...which gives me a grand total of 4 Blush. It's probably wrong I want to do meat in one, veg in one, dairy in another and ready cooked/sauces in the 4th? If there's rationing do they deliver the cards to your home? I don't want to have to queue with dd among angry people Sad

RedToothBrush · 17/09/2019 13:32

Johnson's approval rating going up is the very last thing you wanted to see BTW... Its seriously bad news.

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PickleSarnie · 17/09/2019 13:32

The shouting by Brexiteers on the coverage outside the court is really annoying me. Asking what Joanna Cherry is doing "down here". And how "this is England, not Scotland".

The failure to grasp even the basics of what the "U".K. is making me want to weep. The fact that these muppets had the right to vote on the future of a country that they don't seem to know anything about is really bloody depressing.

CrunchyCarrot · 17/09/2019 13:33

1 - he might see a witness statement as an acknowledgement that this is a justiciable issue

(gotta love the new words we are learning 'justiciable') Yes, it's supposed to explain why he asked her Maj for prorogation. If it's not down in writing maybe he can't be pinned down? But Pannick is using his non-submittal against him.

2 - he can’t write what he wants and swear the statement of truth at the end with his fingers crossed

snort, chuckle!

MrPan · 17/09/2019 13:36

An ameliorating element to the Johnson figure is that fewer people will be voting Tory, so this matters slightly less in the longer term.

But yes, we live among the very hard of thinking.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 17/09/2019 13:36

Im just guessing now but I've got a feeling he's. white, male and between the ages of 45 - 60, probably has a pinkish complexion when riled Hmm

sovielverloren · 17/09/2019 13:52

I think it was on this thread that I heard about the sending of text messages to alert people about passport requirements/validity post Brexit. Just checking in here to say I got a text today, but not sure how widespread this is?

0lga · 17/09/2019 13:55

@JeSuisPoulet

It's probably wrong I want to do meat in one, veg in one, dairy in another and ready cooked/sauces in the 4th

Yes it is. You need to split them across the four freezers in case one of them fails.

0lga · 17/09/2019 13:59

I follow all these threads, PMK carefully, read all your posts, watch the live feed from court, tweet, email my MP and study the news websites.

But I mostly comment here on cake and freezers. This probably reflects my grasp of these complex issues Grin. And that I don’t have a cat.

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