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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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NoWordForFluffy · 17/09/2019 08:37

It's a three day hearing. There will be no judgment today.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 08:37

Imagine the fighting over loo paper, which apparently worries senior civil service advisors

MrPan · 17/09/2019 08:38

Mock- the SC has to hear evidence from the QCs as well. There is a published timetable somewhere and details on how to watch it live on TV.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 08:38

Yes, I thought I read that decision would probably be given on Friday
so I was surprised

DGRossetti · 17/09/2019 08:38

Wasn't May threatening to use bills of Attainder to get business done ? (Whatever happened to ????)

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 17/09/2019 08:39

Don’t ask me how I know but I am pretty sure ration cards were printed beginning of last year and kept just in case to be used as a last resort.

I suspect that the cryptic Gove remarks that we will have food we need rather than want is to do with this. They know they are there and won’t now be a last resort.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 08:40

The Benn Act deadline is why I suspect a tactical BJ resignation on 18/19 Oct
Let's first see this prorogue decision and see if that complicates things

MarshaBradyo · 17/09/2019 08:42

If we have Christmas fights etc over food who will Brexiters blame?

MrPan · 17/09/2019 08:42

tbh I don';t think Gove was being cryptic. It's just that he was on the Brexit Broadcasting Co when he said it, and no-one has picked him up on it since.
Yes, rationing is waiting in the wings.

BigChocFrenzy · 17/09/2019 08:42

2bees That poster JDD claimed that was happening - a couple of years ago on RNorth's blog
It was pooh-poohed here (I reserved judgement)

MrPan · 17/09/2019 08:49

National Service comes with rationing:

Dad: Off you go son.
Son: Why am I doing this dad?
Dad: 'cause I voted for it son. Apparently.
Son: Stupid bastard.

mummmy2017 · 17/09/2019 08:50

Do you honestly think the EU are going to just wait for ever .
There is nothing deal.
There is nothing on offer to give them.
There is no clear cut winner .
No side in Parliament is the side to back.
So come on just see the truth, why should they (as in the EU) wait longer for nothing.

2beesornot2beesthatisthehoney · 17/09/2019 08:54

I never saw that but my source is not a blog. Just people involved in such matters. Haven’t been told directly but a few things adding up to a big suspicion.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/09/2019 09:09

I nearly cried this morning when an older Christian lady whom I've always very much respected and seen as a role model told me she was very much a leaver because she was worried about Muslims from Turkey.

I'm actually really gutted.

mrslaughan · 17/09/2019 09:13

@BlueGingerale -

Russia still want us to brexit. Russia will be heavily funding the upcoming GE / PV.

I don’t think there are any circumstances in which remain will be better funded - or marketed - than leave.

This is what really frightens me.

Exactly this - we all know laws were broken , that social media was used to micro target . All with no consequences- either the laws have not enough teeth, or there is corruption all through the institutions that are meant to protect us. This is why I despair at the thought of a PV or GE

borntobequiet · 17/09/2019 09:14

The idea of BJ as victim of anything other than his misplaced mendacity, hubris and vanity is hilarious.

MrPan · 17/09/2019 09:15

OYBK - that is pretty awful. Sorry.
Lies, built on lies, surrounded by lies.

DGRossetti · 17/09/2019 09:17

I nearly cried this morning when an older Christian lady whom I've always very much respected and seen as a role model told me she was very much a leaver because she was worried about Muslims from Turkey.

So not really a Christian then.

Basilpots · 17/09/2019 09:24

Born one persons Hulk is another persons Dipsy.

As illustrated on this very thread.

Pilcrow · 17/09/2019 09:26

OYBBK About a week before the referendum I was browsing in a local charity shop where I regularly buy books and heard the assistant (older woman, worked there ages, very middle-class SE commuter town where average house prices aren't far off London levels) earnestly telling someone else that she'd be voting to leave because 'all these Turks were going to come flooding into this country'.

Despair.

NoWordForFluffy · 17/09/2019 09:28

So not really a Christian then.

Plenty of those around!

prettybird · 17/09/2019 09:30

Met an Afghan Sikh asylum seeker and his ds at the weekend. He said he'd been overwhelmed with the kindness of the Scots he'd come across. He was also immensely grateful that I told him that the subscription for his ds (for the sport he had just started) would be waived. (The club has a policy that no one should be stopped from playing if they can't afford it - which is why we work hard to get the subs in from those who can afford it).

That's the sort of caring society I want to live in.

lonelyplanetmum · 17/09/2019 09:39

I nearly cried this morning when an older Christian lady whom I've always very much respected and seen as a role model told me she was very much a leaver because she was worried about Muslims from Turkey.I'm actually really gutted

Sounds like my friend's Mum. Really respected her- saw her as a surrogate Mum figure. Really good with my DC too - so a surrogate grandma. Respect her for all the volunteering with the church and community and her role model status.Then she opened her mouth on Brexit..

Triglesoffy · 17/09/2019 09:47

But Boris Johnson is Turkish. Do these people not understand?

thecatfromjapan · 17/09/2019 09:47

OYBK 💐 Brexit, all of it, is awful and divisive.
You can see why people were relieved when Elizabeth 1 said she would not insist on a window into men's souls (& implied she would create a climate where such a window would no longer be necessary).

I grew up rather loathing the adulation of Elizabeth 1 in England - but I'm beginning to really understand it now.

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