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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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MockersthefeMANist · 17/09/2019 09:48

Regarding the powers of the Supreme Court, it is the final court of appeal for all civil cases in the UK, and all criminal cases in England, Wales and NI. The High Court of Justiciary in Edinburgh retains its supremecy.

Also, all the judicial powers of the House of Lords were transferred to the Supreme Court, except for the power of impeachment.

The fun just goes on and on.

Halfeatentoast · 17/09/2019 09:51

And Brexit will mean people of other religions and skin colours (shock! Horror!) will take their and Europeans' place instead. If they're worried about the Turkish they ain't seen nothing yet.

cherin · 17/09/2019 09:55

But Boris Johnson is Turkish. Do these people not understand?

Shit! Who did we let in?? :-) let’s introduce more stringent controls. Next time we’ll not b fooled by the pale complexion and white blond hair!

(Just kidding, of course)
(As long as it’s still allowed)

thecatfromjapan · 17/09/2019 09:56

Light twitter.com/michaelglasper/status/1173698219248947205?s=21

(Twitter thread on how sitcom characters would have voted.)

But it's telling. Sitcoms are imaginary family. I'm guessing we've all thought a bit about how our friends and family, even the imaginary ones, voted. Brexit really has been divisive.

thecatfromjapan · 17/09/2019 09:57

BJ is very much cut from the same cloth as Mr Wickham.

RedToothBrush · 17/09/2019 10:05

One persons Hulk is another persons Dipsy.

The word 'decent' springs to mind.

People who believe they are acting 'decently'.

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MockersthefeMANist · 17/09/2019 10:06

Johnson - Turkish
Raab - Czech
Patel - Uganda
IDS - Japan
Mogg - Planet Zog

placemats · 17/09/2019 10:15

Do you honestly think the EU are going to just wait for ever .

Mummy

The EU waited patiently with regard to Greenland.

The EU has all the time in the world. It's already got its papers in order. Everything is ready to go. The only ones stalling is the current Government.

placemats · 17/09/2019 10:17

Music to my ears:

Your Irish passport is being printed.

YAY!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/09/2019 10:27

I knew you guys would understand. I didn't argue with her, I was in the doctors surgery, but my horrified face and a few quiet comments I hope I may have reached her a bit.
She's been so kind to me in the past. damn. We are living the fucking 1930s.

thecatfromjapan · 17/09/2019 10:30

Yes.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/09/2019 10:33

Listening to the supreme court but it's buffering. damn

Parker231 · 17/09/2019 10:37

Twitter comment

You can tell the supreme court hearing is important because David Dimbleby has turned up. According to the Press Association, the broadcasting veteran has been speaking to those queuing to get into the court hearing. Dimbleby told PA:
I lived through Suez, the miners’ strike, I lived through the poll tax debate and the trouble then. I lived through the Iraq demonstrations - I’ve never seen the country so divided as this ...
The prime minister is accused of lying to the Queen - let’s put it bluntly - and getting Parliament suspended without good reason and that’s big potatoes, it has to be.

CrunchyCarrot · 17/09/2019 10:37

Yes got some buffering. Lord Pannick opening the proceedings. I can't believe I'm listening to the Supreme court (or indeed Parliament) - a few years ago I would have thought that to be very dull and dry!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/09/2019 10:40

when I was little, I used to watch Crown Court. I don't think I realised at the time that it was a drama.

Ohflippineck · 17/09/2019 10:44

To me, Crown Court means off school sick, eiderdown on settee and tomato soup.
Sadly, these proceedings aren’t evoking the same cosy feeling.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/09/2019 10:47

They aren't.

The buffering is driving me bonkers. They need to increase capacity.

NoWordForFluffy · 17/09/2019 10:51

No buffering via the Guardian link to it. It's working fine for me.

CrunchyCarrot · 17/09/2019 10:54

Ha oh dear technology issues!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/09/2019 10:54

fab, I'll switch - maybe that's on a delay if it's mirroring the site.

They seem to be struggling with mismatched page numbers at the moment.

CrunchyCarrot · 17/09/2019 10:54

Not having buffering issues now.

BlackeyedGruesome · 17/09/2019 10:55

@yolofish sorry DH is back at chemo. Hope the drugs do their job. Flowers

BercowsFlyingFlamingo · 17/09/2019 10:55

Just tuned in. Who's the guy talking?

NoWordForFluffy · 17/09/2019 10:58

Lord Pannick QC for Gina Miller.

Paperwork issues are standard in Court!

OhYouBadBadKitten · 17/09/2019 11:00

This is fascinating.