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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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mathanxiety · 16/09/2019 17:06

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, as it were...

www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49712417
The US trying really hard to pin the attacks on the Saudi oil refineries on Iran.

BigSexyCrimeUnit · 16/09/2019 17:07

One thing even her detractors would admit, was that she was supremely competent. Moreover she surrounded herself with competent advisors, and actually listened to them. It was only when she started believing her own press, she lost it.

@DGRossetti yes that's absolutely right about Thatcher, she was very competent (and often brave), I couldn't stand her but even I have to give her that. Johnson is scruffy, lazy, ill-prepared and duplicitous. The problem is that a lot of Leavers just don't care. Confused

I do find Kuenssberg's toeing of the Tory party line quite tiresome.

@AuldAlliance I can't watch BBC news anymore and I never thought I'd say that. They have no teeth and never ask searching questions. Laura Kuennsberg is pathetically craven. I watch Channel 4 News and Sky News at a push as I think Beth Rigby is fantastic.

BigSexyCrimeUnit · 16/09/2019 17:10

@MockersthefeMANist I can't believe that I'd never heard that Alexei Sayle quote about Thatcher - so apt.

mathanxiety · 16/09/2019 17:10

Need my glasses but is that a chicken or a tit at the end of that Twitter thread, Mistigri?

quiteathome · 16/09/2019 17:12

I have been watching these threads for a while. Thank you for some very insightful posts.

I have never been quite so ashamed of my country. I would like to cry. Writing to my MP is probably a waste of time as she just toes the party line and I am in a leave area.

And is the most likely result a no deal at the end of October? At the moment I am struggling to keep up. I have a lot of other stuff going on.

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 17:12

Need my glasses but is that a chicken or a tit at the end of that Twitter thread, Mistigri?

It might say more about me than you, but I saw a cock ....

Peregrina · 16/09/2019 17:12

Can we be sure that this no show at the Press Conference wasn't a put up job by Johnson and his cronies? They could surely have found out the size of the room in advance and booked an alternative. As it is, look, those nasty EU people expect me to stand outside and can't control the crowd......

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 17:12

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

mummmy2017 · 16/09/2019 17:13

Laura interview now on BBC News...
Go Boris.

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 17:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 17:13

As it is, look, those nasty EU people expect me to stand outside and can't control the crowd......

A crowd of British people. Which is quietly unmentioned by a lot of "news" sources.

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 17:13

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Basilpots · 16/09/2019 17:14

Also with Thatcher she was doing something she actually believed in.

Not sure Johnson has the same belief in Brexit.

Remember the two newspaper columns.

Peregrina · 16/09/2019 17:14

A crowd of British people.

Ah yes, but these will be traitors because they are probably people who live there in furrinland.

smilethoyourheartisbreaking · 16/09/2019 17:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JeSuisPoulet · 16/09/2019 17:16

Must be tempting for Corbyn to ask "who is the chicken now?" but better not to resort to the childish name calling.

BoZo could walk around with the Queens severed heat in his sausage fingers and the Daily Heil would say he had done something amazing and brave. I did wonder if walking off was, as the interviewer asked, merely another way of blaming the "bullying" EU.

SkaraBrae · 16/09/2019 17:17

Had to name change due to account issues (??)
I have been posting on and off on these threads for a while.

When Bettel talked so passionately about the EU citizens in the UK it really resonated with me.

I am an EU citizen. I moved to the UK as a teenager nearly 30 years. Did all my schooling here, worked and paid taxes.

I married a Brit and have 3 British children, including one with severe additional needs.
I haven't applied for the settled status yet and I am seriously shitting myself.
Because of our family situation I have not worked for a while (was planning on going back to work but DC's complex medical needs have killed that plan).
I am technically not self-sufficient (certainly no pay slips available).

I really don't know what I am going to do.
This is so shit.
Angry

Basilpots · 16/09/2019 17:17

He really has no ‘gravitas’ has he.

Apileofballyhoo · 16/09/2019 17:18

And is the most likely result a no deal at the end of October?

I think so, quite. I hope you can afford to stock up. Flowers

NoWordForFluffy · 16/09/2019 17:24

We have 120 Brexit bog rolls. Can never have too many.

For those up north, Booths has Quality Street tins and Miniature Heroes tins. I think they're £6.

bellinisurge · 16/09/2019 17:25

We have an annual Christmas pilgrimage to Booths. It's sooooo lovely. Makes Waitrose look like Nisa.

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 17:27

We have an annual Christmas pilgrimage to Booths

Which was mentioned by Alexei Sayle in one of his "Sandwich bar" podcasts for the BBC ... well posh shop in Liverpool. That sold potatoes ?

Socksontheradiator · 16/09/2019 17:31

Pack of 24 andrex on offer in tesco today. Cheaper than own brand.
Not much toilet paper in there so somebody has been reading the telegraph!

thecatfromjapan · 16/09/2019 17:32

I'm so, so angry that L K is pandering to this stunt with a safe interview and no analysis/scrutiny.

I'm actually furious.

That's selling journalistic integrity for access.

And she knows that - we've seen it with Trump.

In other news, I bloody hope MPs have a cunning plan to avoid No Deal.
(And, yes, I'm going to be buying toilet roll!)

tobee · 16/09/2019 17:35

Johnson is seedy and bestial looking.

The train journey into Vauxhall and Waterloo is unrecognisable from a few years ago, endless buildings of mostly tedious architecture and hardly any view of the Thames or the rest of London anymore. Could be anywhere in the world. Always love to look over London skyline and see the stark historical contrasts. It's been obliterated. SadAngry

Just had sky news notification:-

Analysts: How the Incredible Hulk became awfully shy - Boris Johnson's tough day in Europe.

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