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Brexit

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 15/09/2019 19:45

Tuesday is the big day about prorogation.

The Supreme Court hears the case of Cherry and Miller against the government.

This could test the constitution and the union. The Supreme Court sits as both as a Scottish Court and and English Court and applies Scottish / English law accordingly. And there are differences. It is possible that prorogation might only be illegal under one or the other but would have effect on parliament. Or its possible that the Supreme Court might decide to uphold the government position.

What is encouraging is the constitutional expert blogs which suggest that they lean to the court intervening. It's important that for the A50 case the Supreme Court referenced the arguments in these blogs.

But let's not get too carried away.

As it is Joe Moor, former director of legislative affairs at 10 Downing Street wrote in today's Telegraph that Johnson could merely prorogue again from Oct 14 "until at least Nov 6" thus preventing parliamentary scrutiny of no deal which would help enable in effect illegally. The Times also reported Cummings as having said this to advisors.

This has been dismissed by legal experts, but the point remains there is a willingness to both frustrate parliament and be as obstructive as possible in the days leading up to 31st.

There is also the 'Nobile Officium' Court action designed to stop illegal no deal by allowing the courts to write a letter to the EU to request an extension of Johnson refuses to.

It remains to be seen if it has even a chance of success.

The British press has been full of comments of optimism for a deal this weekend. This is after there was positive noises in a similar vein from Brussels. These has since been largely dismissed as mere political will with no practical progress. The British optimism has also been dismissed as mere posturing. And Priti Patel "misspoke" when she appeared to suggest that no deal was no policy this morning.

Other rumours include the French willing to grant a 2year extension but not a 3month one out of fear this will happen repeatedly. The French are now pushing for a deal and relaxing their approach as such (but Germany won't compromise the single market and Ireland the GFA so its all talk).

And do not forget, for all the talk of a deal there are certain time restrains.

Apparently Nikki da Costa has a timetable to get a deal through parliament in 'just ten days' on a spreadsheet. So that gives you an idea that the 19th October is possibly the last day to get a deal in front of parliament if you completely accept that we are leaving without any extension. This neglects the issue that a new deal isn't on the table from the EU and the backstop isn't going anywhere.

A last minute deal or no deal situation is highly risky with the ERG on one side and hard core Remainers who think Johnson won't defy the Benn Amendment and thus will try and block a deal to the last

It seems that we will have a game of cat and mouse until the bitter end.

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Basilpots · 16/09/2019 16:18

Bettel was he the European leader who was rocking a rather fetching velvet jacket at one of the summits ??

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 16:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

prettybird · 16/09/2019 16:21

Olga - I make a really good gluten free chocolate Jaffa cake (essentially an orange cake with lots of chocolate on top) as one of ds' flat mates last year was coeliac. Also made a batch of gluten free chocolate chip cookies for him.

Westminstenders: Supreme Democracy
JeSuisPoulet · 16/09/2019 16:22

Bettel was clear and came across well. I did wonder if BoZoCum has been told not to share a podium in front of press after the last time with Leo - it is evident he cannot do those without looking like an ageing Just WIlliam character.

I actually felt, again, that the EU politicians are asking what the UK ones aren't - how would you feel if you had to live with the uncertainty, the schooling, the being kept in the dark about the real consequences.

Apileofballyhoo · 16/09/2019 16:25

I thought it might have been bullshit, Auld. Love your username btw.

JeSuisPoulet · 16/09/2019 16:27

Would love to see what would happen if they asked CumFace on there - I think he would be keen to show off on that and we might get some actual boasting truths out of him doing a press interview.

AuldAlliance · 16/09/2019 16:28

L. Kuenssberg has suggested that BJ asked for the press conference to be held inside and it was refused, so he left. If everything was set up for it, it might have been tricky to shift inside at a minute's notice.
I think it's clear, from the clip, that once Bettel took the stand and asked for quiet, he got it almost immediately. BJ could have let him speak first and then answered press questions, which he'd probably have been able to do, with much booing after each one.

I am minded to agree that he sloped off because the contrast between cogency from eloquent, well-briefed politicians and bumbling waffle from BJ is just embarrassing.

BigSexyCrimeUnit · 16/09/2019 16:29

Holy Moly I usually lurk on this thread but I've had to post to say I've never seen such anger towards a Prime Minister, even the much-hated Maggie Thatcher at the height of the miners' strike. I've also never heard a Prime Minister humiliated like that by another Prime Minister. Xavier Better was awesome in exposing the lies and ineptitude of the Conservative Party. Even better that he is the Prime Minister of such a small country like Luxembourg, who can't possibly be said to be a bully in the way they would try to frame the same speech from Macron or Merkel.

On the downside, we are slipping into chaos and it is very frightening. I really believe these fuckwits intend to force us out with No Deal.

BigSexyCrimeUnit · 16/09/2019 16:31

This is the truth about the request to move the press conference apparently:

twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/1173616177576366080?s=20

AuldAlliance · 16/09/2019 16:32

Thanks, Apileofballyhoo. I like your name, too.

Bullshit, bordel, bloody shitstorm, blatant clusterfuck, balls-up, ... I guess we'll never know, but the meaning was clear.

JeSuisPoulet: I'm not sure he even knows the difference between truth and lies any more. Like Trump, it all blends into one continuum.

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 16:34

I've never seen such anger towards a Prime Minister, even the much-hated Maggie Thatcher at the height of the miners' strike

One thing even her detractors would admit, was that she was supremely competent. Moreover she surrounded herself with competent advisors, and actually listened to them. It was only when she started believing her own press, she lost it.

AuldAlliance · 16/09/2019 16:36

BigSexyCrimeUnit,
Yes, Boris is crystallising a serious amount of frustration.
That explanation via Connelly sounds v likely. More so than that Bettel was disrespectful and just rejected BJ's request. He knows the anti-EU spin put on so many things and would doubtless not fuel it if he could avoid doing so.

I do find Kuenssberg's toeing of the Tory party line quite tiresome.

And I hate typing BJ, as it conjures up nauseating associations.

NotJustACigar · 16/09/2019 16:39

Pmk

DorisDaysDadsDogsDead · 16/09/2019 16:40

Was it Cut&PasteOva who came on to tell us all how silly we were for worrying about bog roll, because she'd found one UK based producer of bog roll. And then had her arse handed to her had it pointed out that said companies website stated that all their wood pulp was sourced from Sweden...

flouncyfanny · 16/09/2019 16:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IDontBelieveYou · 16/09/2019 16:45

That was so weird. It was like being stuck inside Boris’s own worst nightmare - except he wasn’t naked. Imagine wanting to be PM your whole life and winding up with that as a response. Excruciating.

BigChocFrenzy · 16/09/2019 16:47

Even some Brexiters not impressed by BJ running away

(((Dan Hodges)))@DPJHodges

One thing has just been definitively proved (if there was ever any doubt).

No.10 really don't have a clear strategy.

You don't brief you're The Hulk, brief you're getting close to a deal, then do a runner from the PM of Luxembourg.

SingingBabooshkaBadly · 16/09/2019 16:47

Asa Bennett interviewed in Sky presenting this very much as ‘this was not a press conference it was a baying mob of Remainers’. Theo Usherwood on LBC saying it was an outrageous way to treat a guest PM. Lots of callers supporting that view. A PP upthread mentioned the comments in the Daily Heil.

As we’ve said we might see BJ messing up or behaving badly but that’s not necessarily how it plays to the Mail/Express/Sun readership.

Sarahlou63 · 16/09/2019 16:47

They should have replaced him with a tub of lard. Funniest thing I've seen this year Grin

MockersthefeMANist · 16/09/2019 16:49

Strongly suspect the dream where Bozza is bollock-naked is not a nightmare for him, quite the reverse.

Thatcher was hated, mainly because she was so effective. As Alexi Sayle observed: You knew where you were with Thatcher: You were fucked.

BJ is just a posh pillock without a clue.

DGRossetti · 16/09/2019 16:52

Let's hope this has set the standard for all European-side press conferences from now on.

Er, I say, chaps, can we have the conference ... inside
Je n'est ce pense pas

Mistigri · 16/09/2019 16:52

Jon Worth on Twitter has what sounds like a very credible version of the press conference shambles:

twitter.com/jonworth/status/1173625016535146496?s=21

chomalungma · 16/09/2019 16:53

Let's hope this has set the standard for all European-side press conferences from now on

Remember what happened when he did a speech in Downing Street

Basilpots · 16/09/2019 17:04

Not completely Brexit related but one of the original backers of Facebook (caveat he has a book out) was interviewing on Emma Barnett show today. Fascinating insight of how algorithms push hate as the human fight or flight pushes a stronger reaction.

Result angry people find each other and end up in an angry echo chamber.

It starts at about 1h39 about 20 mins long worth a listen particularly if you have children.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0008hgp

Ellie56 · 16/09/2019 17:05

For saying he's only been PM for 2 months he's not very popular when he ventures out is he? Grin

Running away is not going to improve matters either. Cluck! Cluck!

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