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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

OP posts:
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Icantreachthepretzels · 11/09/2019 11:15

'Friend's House' is an excellent name to be included in a GCSE History paper. What's it like inside?

Cherrypi · 11/09/2019 11:15

Surely all the other parties have got to full avengers assemble and head to Church House now?

Cherrypi · 11/09/2019 11:16

Yes Manchester and that is where the tory party conference is too.

RedToothBrush · 11/09/2019 11:19

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3689294-Westminstenders-I-dont-give-a-flying-flamingo?watched=1
New thread in something of a rush!

OP posts:
SingingBabooshkaBadly · 11/09/2019 11:20

Professor of Government currently on LBC explaining Parliament can’t be un-prorogued until the Queen withdraws her consent - says nothing will happen until after the appeal.

berlinbabylon · 11/09/2019 11:20

Scottish indpendence, should it happen, would be secession. Some loonier Nats have argued they can "end the Union" and dissolve the UK into two sucessor states, on the Czechoslovakian model, but this could only be done with the consent of the rest of the union

Scotland would be permitted to secede, and the UK would carry on being the UK, owning 100% of the assets (outside Scotland) and liable for 100% of the debts

Well I'm not a loony nat, being English, but I also thought that if Scotland wanted independence it would dissolve the union. But I was told (here) some months ago that wasn't the case. It would make more sense though, and give NI and Wales a choice about what they wanted to do next, rather than assume they want to stay with England.

prettybird · 11/09/2019 11:21

I do love the word "stymie" which is as used in the judgement ( stymying Parliament ) . Yet another excellent evocative Scottish word Grin

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
NoWordForFluffy · 11/09/2019 11:21

Bugger, Singing. I bet Brenda is well pissed off now though.

ContinuityError · 11/09/2019 11:22

Jeez, what a mess.

Also seems to be an argument (outlines by Clive Colman) that Parliament can now choose to sit.

Peregrina · 11/09/2019 11:24

they've got a long day of shredding and redacting in front of them.

Reminds me of the last days of E Germany and the Stasi shredding papers.

Can Bercow just re-open a session? At the least you would expect that the Committees would be able to sit and those Bills which got lost could be brought back.

MockersthefeMANist · 11/09/2019 11:25

"The Union" is the Act of Union of 1801, by which the earlier Union of Great Britain joined with Ireland. The Govt of Ireland Act of 1923 modified that Union, allowing the Irish Free State (as was) to secede.

DGRossetti · 11/09/2019 11:25

The rage from Daily Mail readers is interesting. Seems they now all want Scotland to be thrown out of the union.

Poor Queenie ... I think the only thing she cares about politically is the Union.

DGRossetti · 11/09/2019 11:26

Seen elsewhere ...

I don't think that Monty Python were joking when they said in The Holy Grail that, decisions of a purely internal nature should be decided on a simple majority but issues of an external nature should require a two thirds majority. The EU issue is obviously of an external nature.

MockersthefeMANist · 11/09/2019 11:27

...Friends House is appropriately Quakery and austere, with poor acoustics because you're supposed to just sit there and contemplate.

Peregrina · 11/09/2019 11:30

Can the MPs, well the Labour, LibDems, SNP, PC and Tory 'rebels' just march back in?

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2019 11:35

PostNotInHaste 💐 Best wishes for a prompt recovery from your OP
and 🍫 🍫 for extra vitamins !

BigChocFrenzy · 11/09/2019 11:36

pretty I've always know "stymie" as a standard English word

We may have nicked it from you, but I think we adopted it decades ago

Peregrina · 11/09/2019 11:38

I didn't know stymie wasn't a standard English word either, but I can't imagine an English judge using it.

JeSuisPoulet · 11/09/2019 11:40

Really hoping all MP's will just rock up and continue as normal (what happens if the Tories don't btw?).

I suspect yellowhammer won't be released. Can it be heavily redacted at all or does it have to come out in full?

Sostenueto · 11/09/2019 11:44

' prorogation is unlawful' according to Scottish Court. Supreme court date possibly on the 17th.

Icantreachthepretzels · 11/09/2019 11:53

I suspect yellowhammer won't be released. Can it be heavily redacted at all or does it have to come out in full?

I think it's supposed to come out in full. But it's the government's own report and they're the ones publishing it - if they shred bits and 'lose' bits, who's to know? (well, everyone- but it can't be proved unless an original copy is found)

PostNotInHaste · 11/09/2019 11:54

Thank you BCF 😊

prettybird · 11/09/2019 11:57

It would appear to have originated in golf (although both my Collins & Oxford dictionaries say c19th century, origin unknown) - so I'll still claim it as Scottish Wink

Suspect it may well be Dutch/old German as lots of the old Scots/Lallans words have Germanic roots.

It's certainly a word that is commonly used in everyday Scotland 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

ListeningQuietly · 11/09/2019 12:13

Just putting this here

Cailleach1 · 11/09/2019 12:19

Only know stymie from golf. Blocked.

Another useful word is zugzwang from chess. You have to move, but any move will put you at a disadvantage.