Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

[RedToothBrush]

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

That Duty Free “silver lining” tweet is really annoying. A few quid off a bottle of whiskey hardly offsets increased year round food costs. Talk about tone deaf and assinine.

I have a migraine.

I'm blaming the absolute clusterfuck that is our govt at the moment.

Luckily, I've stocked up on pain killers and dh has been sent on his trip with a list.

I'm going back to bed.

My DB is in a strong leave area and I am in a remain one. We are both equally bemused and fed up.

Our betting is currently on TM WA mark II probably with Boris’s big plan written in crayon on the front.

Well we can see that the BBC has started campaigning, along with Boris Johnson, for a so far uncalled General Election....

It's the usual lazy reporting (Newsnight for example) where they are presenting the Labour party as being muddled and unclear on Brexit plus hugely divided between themselves. They also did a report on leave voting Grimsby, showing lifetime Labour voters pop voxing that they will vote for the Conservatives this time.

It's outrageous. How can the BBC sit with a straight face and talk about Labour's divisions when the Tories are leaving their own party and the actions of their government have divided the nation and disregarded both the laws of this country and the conventions of our democracy!!

Our media is a disgrace at the moment.

But before I go...

Kantar have done a poll.

10% of leave voters polled are stockpiling.

What???? Why????? ITS GOING TO BE FINE AND ITS ONLY YOU REMAINER SCUM THAT ARE PREVENTING THE BIRTH OF THE NEW ALBION!!!

🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬

I gave up on the bbc 2 years ago.

Pointless.

Sat in a pub last night, Parliament over ruling the Electorate was the main theme.
People are cross that we can vote and nothing gets done. You may think they will vote to draw back, but people hate being ignored, if Boris goes for this angle he will win, and win by a big margin.

The BBC did similar at the last election, going to traditional Labour areas and being 'unable' to find any Labour voters. I think Bury was one of them and returned a huge Labour majority.

The Duty Free tweet pissed me off too. At the moment when we go to France, we pick up various bottles of armagnac, calvados, wine, beer etc. Now if we can actually get over without queuing for ever and ever we will be limited to one bottle of spirits each. whoop de do.

I'm going to have to stop watching the BBC as it is making me both very angry and very worried.

They should be scrutinizing this for example rather than parroting their usual line of "muddled divided leftties" versus "decisive in control conservatives".

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/dominic-cummings-tory-taxpayer-boris-johnson-latest-a9099556.html

Beach I saw that last night as well, scandalous.

Made me think of all those posters on here who say they never hear anyone talking about it apart from here.

I've heard a lot of people talk about it, at work and on my commute. Big change. I think there is a lot more engagement now in fact. Yes, people are sick of brexit but I think most do want to see a good solution. I don't believe the usual vox pops or Farage callers on LBC represent the majority.

Wow I can't keep up with you guys. Maybe it will slow down now Parliament is cancelled!

Thank you all so much for your sanity and brillance - about the only thing keeping me sane - can barely read the bbc or guardian any more.

I'm going round my hospital demanding everyone registers to vote before I give them advice :D Got a whole load of 24 year old junior doctors registered yesterday, haha. I'm a med reg / A&E so I get called for advice... a LOT. Ha ha.

I was a bit shocked at the number of doctors that weren't registered, though a lot have just moved house. which was generally their reason.

Young healthcare workers, some very transient (doctors move a lot), several of them living in a fairly marginal northern town. They quite casually refer to brexit party as "the racists" "what's the point the racists are going to win". I'm like, you guys are exactly who has to vote!! I live in a big city myself, labour stronghold.

The lib dem enthusiasm I've seen amongst my friends is waning. Feeling seems to be remain would be great but they're out of touch.

I don't know.

My boyfriend cannot believe northern towns will turn tory. Brexit yes, but not tory. He's like, it would be like a man u supporter turning liverpool. no. He says they've abandoned their southern heartlands (not all of them, but the middle class remain bits) and think they can just poach the north with a few daily mail headlines. It's insulting. I hope he's right.

Everyone's in their own bubble of course.

Out of interest, we have heard NOTHING from the hospital for brexit preparations when it comes to medication shortages etc. Nothing.

The flu is going to be very bad this year.

Staffing is at an all time low already.

www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/09/lord-ashcroft-my-northern-ireland-polling-six-out-of-ten-voters-accept-the-backstop-but-only-one-in-five-unionists-do-so.html
Conservative Home Piece by Lord Ashcroft polling NI.

The nationalist / unionist split is huge, though a majority overall in NI accept the backstop.

Chris Hanretty @chrishanretty
Incredibly, Boris Johnson is a more polarising (= abs difference between levels of community support) figure in NI than the leaders of Sinn Féin or the DUP

Thats a feat in itself!

I’m guessing that EU duty free will be subject to limits as we are with the rest of the world ?

I know last week one of the eleventybillion emails I received from the GOV stated that any individual travelling in a small car or van that had purchased anything that was for ‘work’ use over £1000 needed to go through the Red channel and make the relevant declaration. (I won’t link don’t want to aid data harvesting).

Presumably to stop small shop keepers ‘stocking up’ duty free.

That and blue passports and they accuse Labour of taking us back to the seventies.

I haven’t bothered with the BBC news section for a few years - there is no real analysis there or in-depth reporting. They hide pertinent facts in order to promote an agenda.

I don't believe the usual vox pops or Farage callers on LBC represent the majority.

Exactly. It’s obvious callers to Farage’s show are heavily vetted before making it on air. Other presenters like James O’Brien, Eddie Mair and Sheila Fogarty will happily take on - and dismantle - the arguments of - Leave supporters. Farage is really only interested in callers who will parrot his own words.

squid I’ve been telling the apprentices I teach to register to vote for months now...many of them are very worried about jobs...some have struggled to get where they are and were looking forward to getting their qualifications and making better lives for themselves. It’s pitiful.

There are worst things going on in the NHS for sure, but here's an example:

Had a lady having a heart attack last night. Needed to get her to a hospital where they do primary PCI. Reg at that hospital agrees but wants to see ECGs first. This is a proper medical emergency requiring treatment in under 2 hours.

No working scanner on three wards to scan and email ECGs. We agree to fax them. Takes about 30 minutes in total to try and find a scanner and a working fax machine and send these over. This is INSANITY. I can do the medicine, but the tools are in pieces. I have computers held together with pegs. I have been told we can't have chairs, or pens, recently. In the recent heatwaves, one day we worked in 42 degrees (I have photos of the thermometers). I had doctors and nurses fainting.

When will any of this be in the news?

When will any of this be in the news?

When the Tories are out of power but then of course it will be a health crisis under Labour

If Scotland wants to secede from the union that is an argument that won't go away and is their choice. It is not the same as NI.

Why do you say that, Bellinisurge? I would have thought that NI's situation as part of the UK is looked at differently than the countries of GB. The 1993 British Irish Downing Street Declaration stated the British Gov't has no selfish or strategic claim on NI. Also, from the Good Friday Agreement, an explicit provision for holding a Northern Ireland border poll was made in UK law. The Northern Ireland Act 1998 states that “if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland”, the Secretary of State shall make an Order in Council enabling a border poll.

Whether there is a majority in NI who (at this time) want succession from the UK is another matter. Or want to vote that way while there is still such division. I would have thought the establishment of the principle of it's self-determination was stronger than the countries of GB. Up to opinion of Secretary of State, though. Hmm.

Is it because the Scots may be more united as a country?

I think you have answered your own question as to why they are different.
If an NI only backstop adds fuel to Scotland independence claims it just adds fuel. If Scotland wants to secede (by definition it would be secession unlike Wales, for example) it can choose to do so.

Boris goes for this angle he will win, and win by a big margin

I doubt it. Look at the number of people protesting the prorogation. I think Boris has also caused a lot of previous Conservative voters to decide against, especially when he kicked Ken Clarke out of the party.
Whether the number of people who believe parliament exists to enact any "will of the people" is greater than the number of people who believe parliament exists to act in the best interests of the country (even if that is different to the will of the people) remains to be seen.

My personal prediction is a GE would result in a hung parliament. Conservatives might possible retain power if they do a deal with the BXP.

I hope it would be a left leaning minority coalition that campaigned for a referendum on a new negotiated deal vs remain (Labours position basically). I would probably vote lib dem personally. And keep my fingers crossed my Tory brexiters MP got spanked, which would be a turn up as I'm in a very very safe seat.