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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

OP posts:
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Apileofballyhoo · 10/09/2019 10:49

I'm not expecting an end of month production of "High School Musical", but surely they can find enough common ground to isolate the Tories into the nasty nasty party they have become ?

We can but pray.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 10:51

If only, DGR.

We're not seeing that, though.

You're so right. And it's more of the same unwillingness to speak the obvious truth - to damaging effect.

Yes, a coalition or co-operation will be necessary. And it's bananas that this seems to be impossible to say.

🤦‍♀️ I despair sometimes.

RedToothBrush · 10/09/2019 10:58

Which is why the various parties involved in this brief rebel alliance should be capitalising on the fact that nature, God and Boris Johnson have given them a 5 week breathing space to do the one thing the Tories can't. Talk to each other.

See Jo Swinson and the big LD push to make revoke their party policy and talk of a brexit deal under Corbyn, just ahead of their party conference...

...not promising.

OP posts:
Hazardtired · 10/09/2019 10:59

I've fallen in love with thecatfromjapan's words to the point of fan girling Grin

Butterymuffin · 10/09/2019 10:59

Wish a media outlet would take Danny Dyer and a film crew along to one of Cameron's book signings.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 11:00

And now Johnson can let rip with an election campaign, with much promising, much spending of public money in bribes, and no legislature holding him to account.

Utterly, utterly grim.

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 11:03

We're not seeing that, though

hence the liberal sprinkling of "hope" in my thinking Sad

part of the reason we are here, is that all parties starting taking their voters for granted and sweeping generalisations were made about how people will vote. Which may as well have been based on astrology as anything else.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 11:05

So how much bearing does the last budget have on all that spending ?

QueenOfThorns · 10/09/2019 11:05

Wish a media outlet would take Danny Dyer and a film crew along to one of Cameron's book signings.

^This Grin

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 11:06

And now Johnson can let rip with an election campaign, with much promising, much spending of public money in bribes, and no legislature holding him to account.

Will it work? The money will take time to trickle through. Children are now back at school and parents will still be asked for money for what should be basic equipment, and they will still be seeing the results of staffing cuts.

0lga · 10/09/2019 11:07

Excellent thread as always Red, many thanks to you and all the other informed commentators.

Random18 · 10/09/2019 11:11

I am disappointed in the LD's. I get they don't want Brexit and have stick to their guns.

BUT we are in a crisis and we do need compromise.

Labour are still a bit all over the place but at least they are giving people a choice.

And I think that's key. We can't just forget about Brexit, it's not going away.

1 month ago I would have voted for LD's. Now I will only vote for them if they are the biggest challenge to my Tory MP.

I hate Corbyn and I think hes crap but it won't just be him. He would need the support of the MPs in his party and hes got some good ones.

But we do need compromise. And if we need a GBU and it fails because Jo Swinson will not allow JC to be caretaker PM, she may facilitate the thing she claims to want least.

Hazardtired · 10/09/2019 11:12

Johnson might be spending more money on the NHS and education but he hasn't exactly said how that money will be spent. Changing things costs money. The roll out of consultant rationing takes money, shrinking prescriptions cost money because medics need to be educated in what to prescribe instead and be coached in the "new streamlining of services".

Basilpots · 10/09/2019 11:13

@thecatfromjapan

Even the reply to the prorogue petition was an exercise in campaigning on our expense. Angry

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 11:16

Peregrina I'm quite sure that's why we're now seeing targetted bungs of cash.

Even so, it's going to take a lot of bungs to plug the SEND hole, as just one example. The closing of special schools, without the (extremely expensive reorganisation of mainstream schools that necessitates is an expensive mess. People may not know about it but they are sure as hell living with the consequences - whether that be teachers in your school leaving because the job is too much or being unable to get proper provision for your child.

Alsohuman · 10/09/2019 11:19

The bungs only have any point when they’ve been made and the effects felt. Anyone can make promises, can’t they? Johnson can’t pull the figures on the side of a bus wheeze twice.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 11:22

Johnson might be spending more money on the NHS and education but he hasn't exactly said how that money will be spent.

I doubt he's spending a penny. Just re-releasing the "news" of previous spending rounds, and letting our pisspoor MSM paint is as "new".

You can't stop people voting because they believe what they are told. But they should be held to account for the outcome of their vote. Maybe one day it will dawn on even the thickest Brexiteer that they have been getting the abuse for their choices whilst the people who lied to them get away with peerages. It would be in bad taste to liken them to the soldiers in the trenches who were copping bullets for their governments decisions, but I've just done it. And no one stopped me ....

JuliaCheeser · 10/09/2019 11:23

A few threads back I posted up an email from BJ to the ordinary Tory members. Some may remember.
Back in the day, Brandon Lewis used to send fairly regular letters to the membership.
Even mushrooms get a shovel full of shit thrown at them now and then.
Not a whisper or update to any of the members from Party HQ on any of this.
So nothing to leak, sorry!.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 11:27

Johnson can’t pull the figures on the side of a bus wheeze twice

Care to explain why not ?

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 11:28

At what stage will Johnson's money start to flow? The chances are it won't be seen for a few months, even if it were to be committed tomorrow.

Yes, there will have to be compromises on all sides. We really don't know what is (was) going on behind the scenes in Parliament. I think there will be a lot of MPs wrestling with their consciences.

I do think also that we have to keep hammering away to Leavers going on about Remainer MPs. These were people given a mandate by the electorate after the Referendum.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 10/09/2019 11:31

Im sure he's just about to hand his peerage back right? Grin

John Mann
@JohnMannMP
· Mar 28, 2017
Abolish this absurdity - House of Lords and the title given to Mr Alistair Campbell. twitter.com/mirrorpolitics/status/846607670614347776

Basilpots · 10/09/2019 11:32

Extra spending on defence has already been shown to have been swallowed up by pre agreed pension/wage increases, the remainder taken up by having to top up a shortfall in defence contracts with US cases by fall in value of the £. It was discussed on times red box podcast last week.

No new toys for the boys.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 11:34

At what stage will Johnson's money start to flow?

When satan goes past on ice skates. There is no money. There will be no money. And if we do get a Tory-Brexiting government, there will never be any money, "because ...".

The only reason the Tories would put any money into the NHS, is as a way of gifting it to their chums when they sell it off.

Alsohuman · 10/09/2019 11:37

Well he can try @DGRossetti but it’s not going to wash with anyone with half a functional brain

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 11:39

Well he can try @DGRossetti but it’s not going to wash with anyone with half a functional brain

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