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Brexit

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner

984 replies

RedToothBrush · 09/09/2019 19:35

One Opposition MP has just talked in parliament about how little the public understand what Preroguation is and what it meant. She described how one constituent thought it was about perogies.

The Benn Bill is now law and compels Johnson to ask for an extension if we have no deal.

Something that he has said he will die in a ditch to avoid and has suggested he would break the law.

But his options are hugely limited - if he refuses to do so and we no deal accidentally now, he is potentially personally liable for loses. He has no majority and the defeats keep on coming as a result.

Everything coming out now is the behaviour of a man with his back to the wall. The only thing he can do is frame everything as a people v the establishment and hope he survived until a GE. This is a dangerous time - he is now a rat in the corner with nothing to lose.

After Rudd's resignation, not much has got better for Johnson. Several other Tory MPs have signalled they won't stand again. This might mean they decide to rebel as they have nothing to lose. Lord Wellington, who has Tory written through him like a stick of rock, has also resigned the party. Attorney General Buckland hasn't resigned but has made threatening noises if the rule of law is broken.

Proroguation now does stack pressure on Johnson. He has to be the one to make moves and that is going to be difficult for him. However it also gives him time to say and do something without the scrutiny of parliament who have been blowing his arguments and legal assertions to bits with such ease.

Today he has visited Dublin where he stood next to Leo Varadkar who was less than polite nor even particularly diplomatic. The discomfort on Johnson's face and in his body language was very obvious. Varadkar in no uncertain terms said: ""if there is no deal, it will cause disruption for British and Irish people alike", adding "there's no such thing as a clean break, or just getting it done" and that he'd recieved no workable plan.

Tonight are two emergency debates. The first has just concluded about the government's lack of willingness to release documents relating to proroguation and operation yellowhammer.

Its been reported that ministers and civil servants have used private communications to conduct government ministers and this has caused huge concerns and Grieve wants to compel the government to release them. The government have responded saying this is an invasion of privacy. This has raised the accusation that Dominic Cummings personally has rifled through the phone messages of the former treasury communications officer as he sacked her and number 10 were not particularly concerned about her privacy then.

At the same time as the debate the government were briefing the press that they would refuse to comply with demands to release information. Grieve then made the point this was leading to the complete breakdown in trust in government.

David Allen Green said that if the government were to do this we could well be headed into a full blown constitutional crisis. This is the first time he's said he thinks we are actually at this stage.

Grieve was supported by the house by 311 votes to 302 votes ordering the government to release the documents.

The second debate is about the Rule of Law and the government's obligation to obey the Rule of Law.

Yet to come tonight is another vote about an early General Election before parliament pergoies, possibly in the early hours.

In other news John Bercow has decided to stand down at the next election or on the 31st October, which ever is sooner. There are rumours he was about to be deselected by his local conservative association and against convention would have to fight an election to win back his seat. He therefore was merely taking action before he was pushed. This might also be an action to protect parliament from the election of a new speaker after another election, fearing that there might be a hard right takeover which could threaten parliamentary soverignity.

Also this:
Declan Lawn @DecLawn
ERG stalwart Andrew Bridgen on @BBCPM saying the only way he could see a NI only backstop being acceptable is if it was put to an NI-only referendum. Fascinating.

OP posts:
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Basilpots · 10/09/2019 09:51

DGR I've wondered that myself and I've wondered if thats why were seeing this authoritarian drive towards Brexit because they know that public interest and engagement is starting to subside

It’s why they won’t go for a P.V not just the worry that they won’t ‘win’ (hollow laugh) but that they know they will never be able to stop sixteen year olds, and EU citizens voting this time.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 09:54

@DGR I agree.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 09:55

And I also agree with the fidget spinners analogy.

Peregrina · 10/09/2019 09:55

Totally unrelated to the subject of Brexit, and totally related to how thick some people can be, did anyone read about the guy who spaffed £30,000 defending a £100 speeding ticket ?

I take it he's never read Bleak House.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 10:00

I take it he's never read Bleak House.

Somehow, I doubt he reads much at all. Notice how it seems he was in charge of the matter, and it's only now - £30,000 poorer - he "feels" for his family having pissed away their inheritance. It would be harder to find a more fitting analogy for what Brexit is to the whole fucking country.

Also, why on earth did the numpty go to the press ? If I were that stupid, I'd want to keep it very quiet.

dontcallmelen · 10/09/2019 10:03

PMK, Talk your post has gladdened my heart, I so hope if nothing else the people of NI finally get something out of this horror.
Thanks Red & everyone else for your wonderful insights & good humour.

Basilpots · 10/09/2019 10:04

Why did he also no doubt ignore the advice of experts in the matter. Whilst no doubt legal folks involved were happy to take his money I’ll bet the first bit of advice he received was just pay the fine.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 10:05

In other news,I think we're going to see more messaging about London being full of rich Remainers.

I'm so, so tired of this.

It's so civil war-ey.

I petitioned for Remain.

It wasn't rich people signing. It was women in their old age, here for years, shrugging in despair at the idea of applying for settled status; single parents, whose family feel too afraid to come over to the UK to give support; people who've been on the receiving end of the upsurge in racist violence.

I'm so, so sick of this. These are my people: my friends, family, fellow workers. Terrorised by this government & the Leave rhetoric & the violence (at legislative, physical & verbal,) that has been unleashed.

I'm so, so angry when I think about all this.

And the fact that it masks an ongoing onslaught on the fabric of society - the NHS, welfare, SEND provision - that is happening right now.

SEND provision alone is an actual, real crisis, that hardly anyone knows about. It's a scandal. And it's hidden behind headlines about Brexit.

I sometimes think I'm going to completely lose it, and become one of those street preachers, yelling at passers-by to wake up. ☹️

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 10:07

Missed the story about the speeding ticket.

That really is bonkers.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 10:08

Why did he also no doubt ignore the advice of experts in the matter.

bad form to quote oneself, I know, but:

It would be harder to find a more fitting analogy for what Brexit is to the whole fucking country.

TatianaLarina · 10/09/2019 10:08

Received this letter from Jo Swindon this morning.

She’s right: has it really come to this? No deal with BJ or a Brexit deal with Corbyn.

Actually considered becoming a LD member Shock

Westministenders: Parliament Perogies pushing Rats in the Corner
DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 10:12

I'm quite happy to vote for a party, but less happy to pay for it ...

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 10:16

Labour's position isn't 'a Deal'.

It's to try (!) and renegotiate a Deal, then allow free campaigning - on that Deal, with the option to remain.

It's not a position I like.

I'm only spelling it out because nuance has become s Brexit casualty, and nuance is a part of truth. It matters to me that we hold onto it, firmly.

The problem with Labour's position is that it takes several sentences to convey (& that is now an issue in our current mad politics) and we may, genuinely, have moved past that point.

In theory, allowing people s chance to vote on s real, actual deal versus Remain should be quite s good idea.

In reality, the UK is in a bad place.

Mind you, I really wonder about that.

I think DGR is right with the fidget spinners analogy.

TatianaLarina · 10/09/2019 10:23

It's to try (!) and renegotiate a Deal, then allow free campaigning - on that Deal, with the option to remain

Corbyn’s aim is a Deal in the first instance + ‘constructive ambiguity’.

LDs are the only explicitly Remain party. I think that’s Swinson’s point.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 10:24

Chamimda Jayanetti @cjauanetti on Twitter is doing some interesting tweets on Ashcroft's latest polling on Brexit, especially the response to Johnson's spending pledges.

The tl:dr is that there is a lot of cynicism about the money promises and people are very, very fed up of Brexit - to the point of being unwilling to vote.

So, again, a GE may hang on who can cut through the lethargy & get the voters out.

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 10:25

@cjayanetti

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 10:25

Oh - and Brexit May not be the thing that gets the voters out .
🤷‍♀️

theoriginalmadambee · 10/09/2019 10:26

Looking from the outside I'm left with the feeling that your best bet pulling together instead of apart in parliament is BERKOW FOR PM.
Of course I don't know his former politics, but at least he seems to try to keep democracy going. (Just an outside view Blush).

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 10:28

and people are very, very fed up of Brexit

kingsassassin · 10/09/2019 10:31

Labour were also talking about a referendum on the withdrawal agreement which is not really "remain". I'm a committed remainer and would accept the WA rather than no deal (I'd actually genuinely be relieved if that's where we ended up at the moment) but I would be very disappointed about that being the middle option in a 2nd ref and think that Labour are still trying to hedge.

Basilpots · 10/09/2019 10:32

I can see Jo Swinson sticking to her principles and it gives remainers a platform.

But.

There is a massive problem with geography. There are more leave seats than remain. She could help keep this lot in power for another term. Or am I oversimplifying ?

thecatfromjapan · 10/09/2019 10:33

I'm fed up of Brexit.

I do wonder if political commentators are slightly disconnected from that feeling because they are, actually, at this point, actually, really, slightly addicted to it?

It's not often LK sounds despairing, for example. She often sounds a bit breathlessly excited (another hit, another high) - while I think the rest of us quite often feel true despair & moments of deep, deep weariness.

kingsassassin · 10/09/2019 10:35

She could keep the tories in power for another term, but won't agree to another coalition unless she's both mad and suicidal. It's most likely to be a hung parliament again, but certainly round my way (Oxon) its either going to be lib dems or tories and its worth voting Lib dem a) to not have my vote counted as being really for Brexit and b) to give the tories a bit of bloody nose

Alsohuman · 10/09/2019 10:36

The last week has been a real turning point. It feels to me as if the grownups have stepped up at last and the boil’s been lanced. I was in despair when Johnson became PM but watching him self destruct has cheered me up no end.

DGRossetti · 10/09/2019 10:45

It's most likely to be a hung parliament again

The problem with history, and FPTP is that it ends up with parties having to refuse to even use the "c" word when campaigning. (Which is why I really have my scepticism about any BXP "pact" with the Tories).

The emphasis has always been "we are campaigning to win. We expect to win. So there's no point in discussing any eventuality where we don't win".

Which is why the various parties involved in this brief rebel alliance should be capitalising on the fact that nature, God and Boris Johnson have given them a 5 week breathing space to do the one thing the Tories can't. Talk to each other. I'm not expecting an end of month production of "High School Musical", but surely they can find enough common ground to isolate the Tories into the nasty nasty party they have become ?

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