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Brexit

Westministenders: Is Boris going to give us one ?

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 07/09/2019 09:50

A General Election that is

Well, only when Corbyn lets him, not when BJ wants it.
So far as PM, BJ has lost 4 votes to zero wins - which is a record

BJ has been spraying around promises of billions in spending,
like a tomcat drunk on catnip, spraying the Magic Money Tree

SPADs have been forbidden to take holiday before 31 October
and of course that coup / prorogue to force No Deal and wank off the authoritarian vote

The prorogue also robs him of 5 more weeks time in which he could have forced a GE.
Whoops

BJ / Cum would ideally want a GE right after Brexit
to have achieved their No Deal, maximise their votes from the Faragist
.... all before the No Deal chickens come home to roost

Of course, as PM, BJ - or is Cummings the real PM ? - could change any pre-Brexit date that the naive think they have agreed

The Rebel Alliance have options to stop him:

BJ has sacked 21 MPs, so if the Alliance unite, they outnumber Con+DUP
Another Whoops
However, they have different aims and find it difficult to compromise
Some might prefer No Deal rather than the bogeyman Corbyn, because they don't do compromise

They could use a VoNC to replace BJ by Corbyn,
who would then ask for an extension and call a GE before Brexit
Stopping No Deal that way depends on Corbyn winning the GE - a HUGE gamble

Maybe he can use the slogan
"Brexit is the Tory project to make you forget the other Tory project: Austerity"

while to appeal to some pp, the Tories can use
"Vote to protect the bonuses of rich bankers"

Or if nothing happens by 19 October, MPs can vote for the WA, which would definitely stop No Deal
But that would require the HoC to make a decision - and it has spent several months avoiding that

Tick tock, No Deal is coming

Meanwhile, talks are ongoing for a Tory-Brexit party pact.
Reportedly, the hedge-fund donors won't fund a Tory GE campaign unless there is a pact:

www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/revealed-election-pact-between-johnson-and-farage-edges-closer/

How much money does it take to buy the UK governing party ? 🤔

OP posts:
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33
JeSuisPoulet · 08/09/2019 12:50

I always do a double take on IDS - so easily confused with IBS.

chomalungma · 08/09/2019 13:01

Just catching up with Andrew Marr.

It looked like Labour are saying:
Vote for us and:

We will negotiate a good deal with the EU, based on the WA but with looking at a customs union / workers rights extra...

We will then put it to a people's vote.
The vote will be for the deal OR Remain. No other option.

Labour itself will campain for Remain - but I don't know if they will allow Labour MPs themselves to be free to campaign for what they think is best.

Is that other people's reading of the current position?

I think that could be attractive to many Remainers and with a reasonable proportion of those who voted Leave.

But then it comes with a Labour Government which many Conservative remainers aren't comfortable with.

I do wonder what my Dad will do - he is an older Conservative voter - he has no time for Corbyn but he has no time for Johnson. He voted Remain - as it's 'all about the economy'

Apileofballyhoo · 08/09/2019 13:03

Yes, DGR - TM desperately tried to keep the Cons together and now it's fallen apart/morphed into something else anyway, so she may as well have split it at the beginning. Maybe the ERG would be the ones that are out rather than the other way round. (Never in my life did I think I'd be thinking Save the Conservatives - of course it is too late now.)

chomalungma · 08/09/2019 13:06

Yes - there was all this talk of TM not wanting the Conservatives to fall apart. Party before country and all that.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/09/2019 13:07

Didn’t you think he was going to get deselected anyway just ?

Yup so I think it'll be a case of jump before push

NoWordForFluffy · 08/09/2019 13:08

Yes, @chomalungma, that's my reading of it.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/09/2019 13:08

Owen REGISTER TO VOTE Jones🌹
@OwenJones84
·
2m
Hold on a minute. The Lib Dems are castigating Labour - a pro-referendum with Remain on the ballot paper party - as rampant Brexiteers, while standing aside for ex-Tory MPs who support Brexit and leaving the single market and customs union.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 08/09/2019 13:08

I always do a double take on IDS - so easily confused with IBS.
I far prefer attacks of IBS than listening or watching him pick his nose and eat it to IDS

Peregrina · 08/09/2019 13:08

When should my dgd ( 18 in January) register to vote?

NOW. The register will be marked to show the date she turns 18.

Rentals:DD reckons she's paid £120,000 in rent over the last 10 years.
(Mind you, in her case, she could have played her cards better; we could have lent her a deposit and she would have been sitting pretty on an asset going up in value. But it's easy to be wise with hindsight.)

However, there are other models available for renting - BigChoc has explained the situation in Germany in the past, where renting is a perfectly good option, and houses can be sold with sitting tenants, and good sitting tenants are regarded as an asset.

But, we can't do that, oh no, because this is sensible Germany, the leader of the EU doing something, and we have to hate all that. We have to slavishly copy what rich Americans would do. Grin

Basilpots · 08/09/2019 13:09

@chomalungma

That’s my reading of it too.

They end up having to try and please everyone because although their voters are numerous in remain numbers many of their marginal constituencies are leave voting.

Basilpots · 08/09/2019 13:11

@JustAnotherPoster00

Any others you think might go ??

JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/09/2019 13:11

I could not dig; I dared not rob:
Therefore I lied to please the mob.
Now all my lies are proved untrue
And I must face the men I slew.
What tale shall serve me here among
Mine angry and defrauded young? - Rudyard Kipling

Peregrina · 08/09/2019 13:14

I can't really see Leavers happily taking to petrol rationing. This wasn't what they voted for. Only a few die hards, who will come on and tell us that yes, they are perfectly happy walking 10 miles to work and 10 miles back each day.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 08/09/2019 13:14

None that come to mind yet Basil

chomalungma · 08/09/2019 13:22

They end up having to try and please everyone because although their voters are numerous in remain numbers many of their marginal constituencies are leave voting

I think that Lib Dem MPs need to be asked if they would prefer a high risk strategy by going against Labour MPs in constuencies where a Conservative would get in and No Deal happens - or the safer option of forming alliances so Labour gets in and Remain / a good deal is put to the people and No Deal is taken off the table.

Especially with coalition Governments being taken off the table by Labour and the Lib Dems.

I wish people on here could just sit down with the Rebel Alliance and talk to them about all this - get them away from their tribal views.

No Deal needs to not be an option at all in an election - because if you vote Conservative, you will get No Deal. If you vote Lib Dem, there's a high chance the Conservatives win and you get No Deal. If you vote Labour, the chances are we will Leave the EU, but at least we leave with a good deal - and No Deal is off the table.

Labour needs to really emphasise the positives of a good deal to Labour voters.

JeSuisPoulet · 08/09/2019 13:23

Peregrina but petrol rationing is how they will enable enacting the Civil Contingencies...perhaps.

chomalungma · 08/09/2019 13:26

can't really see Leavers happily taking to petrol rationing

It was in 2000 when we had the fuel strikes. Remember that - I was abroad but saw the pictures. Queues, shortages of food, people being told to drive slowly, fights breaking out.

All good stock footage to remind people of what happened only 19 years ago.

prettybird · 08/09/2019 13:27

Came across a guy today who was/is a Remain supporter but he thinks that we need to get a solution.

Fair enough....... except he thinks the solution is for Ireland to "return to" the UK and leave the EU Confused

He genuinely thinks that
a) 90% of Ireland's business is with the UK (when I challenged him on this, he said "Financial business" Hmm) so it is in their interests to throw their lot in with the UK,
b) that Ireland's economy is (and has been for the last 20 years) "going down the pan" and that they are an economic basket case that needs the UK to survive (and no, he didn't mean NI),
c) that a Border Poll would not and will never result in a united Ireland as the protestants will never agree to it.

The only thing I agreed with him about was that sectarianism is bad and that religious schools don't help.

I don't think it is a coincidence that he is a Rangers fan Sad

PestyMachtubernahme · 08/09/2019 13:31

Philip Hammond's response to Matt Hancock's tweet that everything is just fine with Tory values.

Sorry Matt, I’m afraid the Conservative Party has been taken over by unelected advisors, entryists and usurpers who are trying to turn it from a broad church into an extreme right-wing faction. Sadly, it is not the party I joined.

Ouch

The Conservative party is eating itself

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 13:36

pretty Please correct your ill-informed Rangers fan about trade
AND
inform him he can't force Ireland to Irexit against the wishes of 90% of its population
(that'll rise to near 100% if it is Brits forcing Ireland, instead of a free choice)

Nov 2018 RoI trade statistics

RoI trade value is several times higher with the EU than the UK
So Irexit makes no economic sense

  • and 92% of Irish people want to stay in the EU anyway

https://cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/gei/goodsexportsandimportsnovember2018/

RoI exports:
10% to UK
49% to EU

RoI imports:
22% from UK
57% from EU

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RedToothBrush · 08/09/2019 13:42

Just a word about campaigning and Facebook.

DH has a friend in a swing seat with a large number of FB friends. Over the weekend for some reason another friend made a comment that the first friend had his account hacked and DH being a techy went to look.

It turns out his account had not been hacked. It'd be cloned and 8 people had already accepted friend requests.

DH had realised at the time of the last election that fake accounts had risen in number and he'd had a lot just trying to add him.

He thought when it first come out about all this Facebook information that Cambridge Analytica had got, that this was likely to be one way they had got this information.

DH finds this clone particularly interesting for appearing now in a swing seat right now. He thinks it could easily be used to help profile the constitutency and voter intension.

ListeningQuietly · 08/09/2019 13:43

PRIVATE RENTALS / right to buy
Its all irrelevant.
The only part of the housing market taxpayers money should go into is building SOCIAL HOUSING for rent by the Local Authority
Which will pay for itself in

  • reduced homelessness
  • reduced housing benefit / universal credit costs
and by putting the floor back into the housing market, bring rents and prices back down for everybody including students

The fact that a council can borrow to buy the freehold of a Mercedes Garage
but NOT borrow to build houses for its homeless
is the real problem.

OhLookHeKickedTheBall · 08/09/2019 13:43

I think prettys Rangers fan may have a point, if ROI merge back with the UK. Except given its the UK with the massive political instability then perhaps that would be best achieved by ROI colonising us Wink

prettybird · 08/09/2019 13:48

I did correct him, although I said 11%, not 10% but I don't think he believed me Hmm He certainly didn't believe me that support within NI is moving towards a united Ireland and that hardcore unionism is on the decline - which I think is why he shifted that part of his argument that the protestants wouldn't "allow" it Shock

But it wasn't the place to have a more detailed debate Sad as I was taking money from him for his child's rugby club subs: at least rugby doesn't have the same problem of sectarianism. Only get onto the topic because he saw me scowling at the computer; I was reading the Westminstenders thread Wink.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/09/2019 13:49

As peregrina said
I'd recommend bringing in the same safeguard and rights as e.g. Germany
and then RTB is unnecessary

I am comfortably off and could buy without a mortgage, but choose to rent in Germany, because:

  • security of tenure -for any tenant who pays the rent and doesn't wreck the place
  • not a problem for LLs, because a sitting tenant is a positive asset in a sale

The tenant before me in my previous place had lived there nearly 40 years - not that unusual

  • but I only have to give 3 months notice myself, once initial year is up
    I like the flexibility of being able to move if I fancy another village

  • ^Legal controls on how often and high rent can be increased

  • Tough rules to make LLs do repairs or be promptly taken to court

  • Right to decorate, paint, wallpaper, build shelves, put up new lighting etc^
    The tenant either agrees with the LL this stays, or restores it to the original state when moving out

Some places are sold without kitchens, so the tenant can fit their own - some like to bring a kitchen with them

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