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Brexit

Westminstenders: Skullduggery Fatigue

959 replies

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2019 22:19

A recap as best I can

Johnson-Cummings wanted an election. Their entire strategy was based on getting one before 31st Oct to get a majority to force No Deal through and retain power for 5 years.

They protested they didn't. They poked and tried to provoke and outrage in order to get one

But the trap was spotted.

The Commons instead voted to give power to parliament to control the timetable in order to try and block no deal.

This came at a high price for 21 Tory rebels who have been kicked out of the party ungraciously and without an ounce of the respect that the HoC usually demands despite differences of opinion and its pantomime jeers.

This combined with Johnson's prorogation (and what seems to be lying to the Queen in order to get her consent if the Cherry case to block prorogation seems to be suggesting) has shocked and enraged Tory 'moderates'.

Johnson under estimated the size of the rebellion and his threat to deselect seemed to spur on rebels rather than deter them, as it made them perceive Johnson as a threat to democracy and the constitution more than if he'd taken a softer line.

He also seems to have underestimated the internal reaction amongst those who remained loyal to the party. One MP is on record saying Johnson can't take his vote for granted. At the 1922 committee MPs who stood up for the rebels were cheered whilst those who stood up for government jeered. Johnson blamed his whip for the expulsions rather than take responsibility himself which again hasn't gone down well. The chair of the One Nation Tories Damien Green has written to the PM demanding their reinstatement so all is definitely not well. Johnson has ploughed on with the selection of the rebels replacements nonetheless. The idea was to strengthen Johnson and end the internal tory civil war but his heavy handed approach doesn't seem to have settled matters yet at least. Tonight Caroline Spelman joined the rebellion but hasn't been expelled from the party, which makes last nights hard line look even worse.

The bill to block no deal passed the Commons and has gone to the lords. The Kinnock Amendment to try and return May's deal passed in an act of government skullduggery designed to sink the bill completely but thus does not seem to have paid off and may yet provide an emergency escape route from no deal. It highlights the extent Johnson will use dirty tricks.

Tonight the vote was for a GE. Under the Fixed Term Parliament Act the government needed 2/3rds of parliament to trigger one.

Labour, figuring it was a trap, havent bitten. Instead they have made preconditions to triggering one.

This scuppers Johnson's plan and its not clear where we go from here. Johnson us a lame duck but has the power of the PM's office.

He can create a vision that it's the people v parliament to help him for when we do have a GE which is now all but inevitable. This is dangerous.

But no deal is dangerous too.

The stakes are high.

Hopefully the no deal bill will pass the lords though may be hampered all weekend by filibustering.

It returns to the Commons on Monday where it needs to pass.

Then we are expecting prorogation to commence.

For Johnson who needed a GE on the 15th, Monday is his last day to trigger it. Expect more dirty tricks but he's running out of options

Come mid October the pressure for a deal will ramp up on Johnson. No deal is still the default but he will have to be seen to be doing something, not just blaming everyone else and taking no responsibility himself.

Will prorogation go ahead in these circumstances? It's now open to debate...

Johnson-Cummings strategy still could work, but it's substantially weakened and now Johnson will have to do something more radical and possibly illegal to get his own way.

And that General Election before the fall out if No Deal is still his ultimate goal as its his gateway to retain power...

... Expect even more fireworks to come.

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LonelyTiredandLow · 04/09/2019 23:47

I'm also wondering if Cum hasn't got up in the face of the DM about what they "should" print...egos, egos everywhere.

LonelyTiredandLow · 04/09/2019 23:48

Because she was always a remainer lonely. When BoZoCum got in it was a dream team for leave voters. They think they are winning.

Cwenthryth · 04/09/2019 23:48

On a tangent, I’ve watched so much politics the last few days I worry I am in danger of using HoC language in every day life.... raising a Point of Order with DP or referring to the cat as my right honourable friend Grin

FMFL · 04/09/2019 23:49

PMK with thanks as always. I’m trying to keep up!

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2019 23:52

Lonely,

Johnson is out for Johnson.

His position is that he needs a GE to retain power. In order to win a GE he believes he needs to win the approval of No Dealers and look hard-line.

I do think he will follow Cummings almost to the wire though as he trusts him.

But its all a question if timing and come mid October, Johnson really is going to start running out of options.

I think at this point he will become like a trapped rat in a corner, thus he will really push the limits of the constitution and the law.

Ultimately when it comes down to it if he sees that isn't going to work he WILL switch strategy.

If he thinks his best option then is to stay in power and win an election is to somehow get a deal through he will flip to that.

I suspect he'd be in a position of desperate and last resort to do this, purely because he's done a good job of burning his bridges in the process.

And I think this will only come after the constitutional outrage (which he'll survive purely to avoid triggering a pre 31st Oct election and parly closing).

But its still on the table and will be part of his GE pitch that he was 'forced' to behave like a reprehensible twunt 'for the people'.

He's habitual.

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lonelyplanetmum · 04/09/2019 23:53

Because she was always a remainer lonely

So the WA is likely to somehow pass.Mr Johnson is doing the reverse psychology of seeing not really to want it.But he doesn't care either way?? He is trustworthy only in his untrustworthiness, but ironically he is trusted more by his party as to where he will take the WA because he is trusted take it in a harder direction whereas May couldn't be trusted as it would be BINO.

Icantreachthepretzels · 04/09/2019 23:53

Meanwhile i find myself second guessing, in a 'ah yes, if he does A, then B is likely to happen, and he can do C' kind of way.. but i am overly analytical!

That's because you're trying to play a game of mental chess, whilst Boris is running around No 10 in nothing but his pants shouting 'I'm the prime minister I'm the prime minister nah nah nah nah nah I am the king 10 points to Gryffindor'.
He is the pigeon that knocks over the pieces, shits on the board and then claims he won. And Dominic Cummings is whatever the name for a pigeon keeper is. A pigeon keeper who will shoot his pigeon if it starts to look like it's got the mange. But the pigeon is too stupid to know that. And the pigeon keeper doesn't actually understand the rules of chess, he just thinks he must be better at it than everybody else by virtue of his massive and tragically unacknowledged genius.

Peregrina · 04/09/2019 23:54

or referring to the cat as my right honourable friend

I am sure that your cat will find that a most acceptable title, much better than the name 'Tiddles' or the generic 'Puss'.

lonelyplanetmum · 04/09/2019 23:54

Thank you! Cross posted. Although really three years of cross doesn't come close.

RedToothBrush · 04/09/2019 23:56

I'm also wondering if Cum hasn't got up in the face of the DM about what they "should" print...egos, egos everywhere.

One word.
Facebook.

He's not bothered about the press too much. Can be discredited as 'liberal elite' or 'establishment' (yes even the mail) with his target.

Also the Mail DOES tend to print conflicting views. It will often carry random pro-Remain leaning articles although the bulk of its content and editorial line is heavily leave.

It's an interesting article to see run, but I do have a little pinch of salt with it.

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BlackLetterDay · 04/09/2019 23:56

Why did jess Phillips say that she wasn't aware of parliamentary process?? Surely she has been there for quite awhile Hmm

BirdandSparrow · 04/09/2019 23:56

pmk

FoldyRoll · 05/09/2019 00:01

The last time the threads were moving this quickly was during the meaningful votes. Ah, the sweet innocent days of our youth. They seem so tame now.

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 00:01

"Boris is running around No 10 in nothing but his pants"

Horrible image 🤮 but you are right, pretzels
BJ & Cum are nowhere near as clever as they and their supporters think

We've seen them stumble from one fuck up to the next

The question is when enough voters notice

JustAnotherPoster00 · 05/09/2019 00:01

Why did jess Phillips say that she wasn't aware of parliamentary process??

Part of the faux working class image she likes to project. She did give a good speech today though

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 00:06

Whilst Boris is running around No 10 in nothing but his pants shouting 'I'm the prime minister I'm the prime minister nah nah nah nah nah I am the king 10 points to Gryffindor

I'm sure MN has already told Carrie to LTB but she sure does has bad taste in men!

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BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 00:10

Well, as Kinnock's amendment got passed by mistake, maybe Jess isn't the only one who needs to brush up on their Parliamentry procedure Wink

LonelyTiredandLow · 05/09/2019 00:14

At least he hasn't got her pregnant yet Red. I think the puppy was a substitute possibly also suggested on MN Wink

BigChocFrenzy · 05/09/2019 00:18

Lewis Goodall@lewisgoodall

The election is being deferred because the anti no dealers, suddenly and unexpectedly working together harmoniously,
now have a stable parliamentary majority to do with as they like.

Cummings’ expulsion of Tories has solidified it.
It suits them to keep the govt trapped.

Democratically, constitutionally that is pretty questionable.
But it’s happened because of his own constitutional indiscretion, his hurriedness to prorogue.

Without that, none of this would have happened.

The premiership he for so long coveted, is for now, a perfect prison.

Cummings, the alleged great mastermind, forgot that other people can act unpredictably too

< throwing the steering wheel out of the window doesn't always stop a passenger engaging the brakes >

RedToothBrush · 05/09/2019 00:19

At least he hasn't got her pregnant yet Red.

Scan picture in time for election campaign?

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Icantreachthepretzels · 05/09/2019 00:20

Horrible image

just so everybody's got a clear visual - these pants are slightly grungy, slightly stained, greying white Y fronts - and the elastic is starting to fray.

He may also have socks on - ankle length and pulled up to their full height. The socks are argyle.

The No 10 staff are handing in their notice reminded of a wobbly pink blancmange in a nappy.

LonelyTiredandLow · 05/09/2019 00:27

Surely not Red - women would hate him more, authoritarians would demand marriage and macho men would think he had ruined his new toy (in their eyes he's got a young bit of totty = dude!).

LonelyTiredandLow · 05/09/2019 00:29

I simply can't see what Cumface is getting at the end of this. He'll end up working for Facebook is my guess.

Apileofballyhoo · 05/09/2019 00:32

Heroic day in the HoC. Thanks for the new thread, Red. I hope Kinnock has saved us all, even by accident - in that the government plan to kill the bill by leaving Kinnock in might be the way the WA actually gets passed. Skulduggery indeed. I don't care now what happens as long as it all goes away, NI is ok, the UK is ok, and it goes back to being relatively normal.

Feel far far less annoyed with Jeremy Corbyn. It's funny, I used to get very annoyed at Labour under JC being so on the fence, and I suppose I think Brexit is just such a stupid pointless idea, but he is coming across as honest. I wonder. When is the next poll?

BoreOfWhabylon · 05/09/2019 00:34

pmk