Does anyone here actively WANT no deal?

[justintimberlakesfishwife]

And if so why, and how do you expect it to play out if that's the outcome?

That doesn’t stop us critiquing the stupid simplistic approach the referendum was based on

So if there is another referendum, what question should be asked rembering the requirements of equal parity.

No heard any answer to this question from remain supporters

All parts of project fear.

Well to keep it balanced there is no rainbow shitting unicorns NHS money that we were promised either.

Well to keep it balanced there is no rainbow shitting unicorns NHS money that we were promised either

How is that a question?

Brexit dividend does not appear until after the UK leaves the EU

There is probably nothing wrong with the question 'do we wish to remain/leave?'

The issue is the illegal campaign that Leave ran and all the lies and false promises. I would be interested to see how they legally and truthfully ran a new campaign.

@MysteryTripAgain - Two borders likely to occur in the event of a no deal. A vague WTO border in NI and an EU border in ROI like those in Eastern European countries.

Neither of which would be necessary if the UK showed one whit of integrity and left the EU in a manner that is compliant with the GFA. The UK red lines precluded compliance with the GFA. The EU made a major concession by offering the backstop to allow a brexit that didn't threaten the GFA.

If the UK had any integrity they would have either removed the red lines or accepted the backstop. Unfortunately, there are too many with a belligerent, intransigent, empire mentality in Westminster, so here we are.

They have already admitted that there was never going to be the money for the NHS. Literally minutes after the result was announced, so no I won't hold my breath that suddenly all this money will flow in the right direction.

The issue is the illegal campaign that Leave ran and all the lies and false promises

If campaign was illegal, why did pro remain government not declare the results void?

As for lies where are the 800,000 job loses that would occur just by voting to leave?

@MysteryTripAgain - Brexit dividend does not appear until after the UK leaves the EU

Would you care to share with us what can be expected from the brexit dividend? I'd like some actual details, rather than waffely nonsense about trade deals that plays with percentages that are misleading at best.

You don’t seem to know the rules of the game @MysteryTripAgain. If you make a statement it’s incumbent on you to provide the proof, not to tell the person who asks you to find it themselves.

You were the one who cited Article 49 as an argument against Brexit being fine if it didn’t work out. You’re arguing against yourself now. Much like our PM.

The EU made a major concession by offering the backstop to allow a brexit that didn't threaten the GFA

Which was rejected by the DUP

If you make a statement it’s incumbent on you to provide the proof, not to tell the person who asks you to find it themselves

It was on BBC News website 23 May 2016. What's not clear about that? Maybe you have already looked and not liked what you saw as it proves remain campaign lied?

Article 49 allows application to rejoin, but no certainty of acceptance.

EU is wobbly at moment with Italy anticipated to be the next Greece. Maybe EU will not last much longer anyway.

Trump would like to see EU collapse which might explain why he supports a no deal departure?

I haven’t looked. Link, please.

I

Bbc.co.uk is the website

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564&ved=2ahUKEwiKj6SH2r7kAhVsILcAHarYAjsQFjAHegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2PpmzhsSJG64SkzHNKPbaX&ampcf=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36355564&ved=2ahUKEwiKj6SH2r7kAhVsILcAHarYAjsQFjAHegQIBBAB&usg=AOvVaw2PpmzhsSJG64SkzHNKPbaX&ampcf=1

@MysteryTripAgain - Which was rejected by the DUP

Who oppose the GFA. At that stage, a country with any integrity would have reviewed their red lines in order to ensure they did not create conditions that would result in an international peace treaty being broken. Same again when the WA was rejected.

Would DUP accept changes to the red lines

That was a prediction, and whilst the figures aren't exactly as predicted the pattern is pretty much correct.

I am not sure why you feel that that is a lie, more 'thank goodness it hasn't been quite as bad as we thought'

@MysteryTripAgain - Would DUP accept changes to the red lines

I suspect they would. Their objection was to NI being treated differently to GB, rather than an objection to the backstop per se.

That's irrelevant to my point anyway. A government with any integrity would have reconsidered their red lines in order to ensure they did not lead to an international peace treaty, to which they are party, being broken.

That was a prediction, and whilst the figures aren't exactly as predicted the pattern is pretty much correct

So predictions that don’t come true are okay when they are being used in an attempt to influence how people vote?

So predictions that don’t come true are okay when they are being used in an attempt to influence how people vote?

^ Easiest deal in history, will have a FTA the day after we leave, they need us more than we need them - and we send the EU £350 million a week, let's fund our NHS
^

Another remain supporter who won't accept they lost the referendum

I don't understand this. If I voted for the Tory party but Labour won the election I wouldn't be required to become a Labour supporter. I can accept 17 million votes were cast for Leave, I don't have to agree they were right to do so.

I thought the Referendum was a grave mistake which gambled this country's future - calling me a bad loser doesn't persuade me otherwise.

I read Mystery's now deleted post before MNHQ got there. I'd like to believe the majority of the country feel very differently.

The Referendum fails (in my view) for certainty - my Dad and FIL voted for Norway + as they were both Daniel Hannan fans, my friend voted for a Canada style deal. Those options and any others should have been given - with Government impact analysis for each version. 17 million didn't vote for the same option and they don't all hold identical views now.

The Ref itself required a longer process and a clear expectations that any version of Leave might take up to a decade to finalise to protect the economy and NI/Ireland. Nobody should have been under the illusion it would be quick - unraveling decades of alignment whilst complying with an international peace treaty requires a slow and collaborative approach. Cameron/Conservative party is obviously wholly at fault here.

In my ideal world (!) before the Referendum was run:

1. National syllabus covering in constitutional law and practice so the nation could be better informed about Parliaments role and the range of powers of the devolved nations. A lot of people didn't understand representative democracy and this has fuelled a lot of anger.

I think 1. might might also lead to more challenge some of the squewed media articles written by think tanks funded by murky sources (55 Tufton Street/Aaron Banks);

1. politicians promises/statements should be legally required to be accurate and accountable and an independent body set up to ensure this is the case. Again too late now but needs addressing urgently. I'm sick of glib soundbites (from both sides) when our future is on the line.

1. I'd also want media outlets to be given equal access to politicians (see Trump).

I've already answered my view why the government did not declare the referendum void.

there you go Mystery - something to argue with. I have to go out now and have a busy weekend.

A prediction is exactly that. How would anyone without a fully functioning time machine know they won’t come true? There would be a lot of lottery winners if your hypothesis held water @MysteryTripAgain.

*A prediction is exactly that. How would anyone without a fully functioning time machine know they won’t come true?

Remain supporters must have such a time machine as they are certain the UK will be worse off in the future if it leaves the EU.

So on the off chance something might be a bit ok at some point in the future, we should go No Deal. Don't be ridiculous. But then, you have casually accused people of being terrorism supporters and then said "it was a joke".
You are a very suspect point of view. Are you based in the UK? Or are you one of our Far East/Australasia posters who love to play risk with a country you barely have any connection with?

And the repeated conflating of "Anti No Deal" with "Remain ". Straight out of the Quitlings playbook.
Must try harder.

All the facts point to us being worse off out of the EU. Even Rees Mogg says it will take us 50 years to recover. I’ll be dead long before that.

m.youtube.com/watch?v=My4UM_zCpk0