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Brexit

Westminstenders: The House Is On Fire

991 replies

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 13:01

Have we walked into a trap or has the trap shut on the fingers of Johnson?

To early to tell but we have entered an All or Nothing Game.

Johnson seems to have been advised his only way out is a GE - the polls look decent to him. Yet the FTPA means he can not call one without parliaments consent.

He has tried to spook Tory MPs to his will by threatening de-selection. Yet this seemed to have backfired in combination with proroguing and fired up rebels and moderates.

This might still be deliberate though to remove the road block of an internal civil war in the Tory Party. In cleansing moderates though they become the Brexit Party...

... And Spreadsheet Phil has vowed to fight to the last for his party from entryists and non members like Cummings. After first getting support of his local association.

Tonight sees a vote at around 9pm, which is touted as a pseudo no confidence vote.

If this block no deal then tomorrow we face a big day. It looks like there are numbers to do this.

Rebels are looking to seize control of parliamentary time (which might affect prorogation timetable). This is a beefed up version of the previous attempt to do this.

This is around 3pm - 7pm tomorrow.

No 10 has a spad meeting at 7pm, which presumably is about fallout from that vote - and if it goes against government will probably be about trying to force an election.

If he can.

Labour now have leverage though. They can make demands and insist they are in law before agreeing to a GE on Johnson's terms.

Which perhaps makes a GE less likely than the BBC seem to think.

There is talk of trying to force another extension to 31st Jan. I'm not entirely sure how this helps, without a legitimate goal of a deal that goes with it. All it does is push things even more polarised.

And that's my fear. The issue of Brexit isn't going away. No deal, a deal and remaining all leave significant numbers highly dissatisfied. Its hard to see a way out of this without unrest because its been pushed so hard in a polarising way.

If Johnson fails to no deal or to deal on his terms where does this push Farage sympathisers?

We shall see what happens...

... Will the House's independence survive until Nov 5th?

OP posts:
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RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 22:46

Dom Walsh @domwalsh13
Of the 328 MPs who voted for the motion tonight, only 24 voted for the deal at some point (17 Conservatives, 4 Independent, 3 Labour).

The rest did not vote for it once.

The deal would have taken No Deal off the table. This motion/Bill does not.

Just saying 🤷‍♂️

OP posts:
Yamayo · 03/09/2019 22:46

Soames was already pretty outspoken ahead of tonight's vote.
He was quite contemptuous at the thought of being deselected.

Jason118 · 03/09/2019 22:47

*@Hazardtired *
Was leadsom confused because she's a mother
You missed fucker off the end

BigChocFrenzy · 03/09/2019 22:47

Why would the Opposition want to repeal the FTPA atm ?

It would just return to the previous rule that the PM alone chooses when to call a GE

i.e. it would just give BJ - not Parliament - the sole power to call a GE on whatever date he wants
which atm would enable him to force No Deal

The FTPA needs repeal, but not in the middle of this crisis

SansaSnark · 03/09/2019 22:47

Nick Soames says he has been told he will have the whip removed tomorrow. He won't stand again.

He says what Boris Johnson wants from the EU is completely unachievable.

Ken Clarke says he might not even vote conservative at the next election!

tobee · 03/09/2019 22:47

Bit of a squash round the draughty Newsnight table Grin

ARoomWithoutADoor · 03/09/2019 22:48

Carrie?

Belindabelle · 03/09/2019 22:48

Soames is not going to stand at the next election.

RedToothBrush · 03/09/2019 22:48

Douglas Carswell @Douglascarswell
Boris Vs the political Parasites. Guess who wins across suburban Britain?

OP posts:
Hazardtired · 03/09/2019 22:49

Hope the papers have a field day over winston's grandson...who has a name that isn't memorable. Not exactly the blitz spirit. Almost as if Johnson is a Nazi bastard.

CGTER567 · 03/09/2019 22:49

chomalungma the DM comments are interesting at the moment. Lots of moaning about traitors and WE VOTED FOR NO DEAL, but some very sensible comments in there, too, which is unexpected.

SansaSnark · 03/09/2019 22:50

Soames has said that none of the 21 rebels will waver tomorrow.

LyraParry · 03/09/2019 22:50

In more important news - the spider moved itself from outside my bathroom door. And on to my bedroom floor! But it has been carefully moved outside and now I am able to use the loo and sleep without being crawled on.

That, and the vote, make tonight a win in my books.

LonelyTiredandLow · 03/09/2019 22:51

Andrea Leadsom, the business secretary, was wrong when she said earlier that the Tory rebels would be given a second chance before they had the whip removed (see 10.29pm), the BBC’s Vicki Young reports.

Vicki Young
@BBCVickiYoung
· 18m
Andrea Leadsom tells me Tory rebels have another chance to stay in the party if they vote with Government tomorrow. Has PM got cold feet? #brexit

Vicki Young
@BBCVickiYoung
Now been told that all 21 will lose whip in all circumstances!

BigChocFrenzy · 03/09/2019 22:52

"Of the 328 MPs who voted for the motion tonight, only 24 voted for the deal at some point (17 Conservatives, 4 Independent, 3 Labour)."

We still have the situation that MPs know what they do NOT want: No Deal
(we knew this months ago)

What do they want .... given an extension ?
Just a GE as proxy for a PV ?
It won't be - too many voters just go by the rosette

but we don't yet know if they will vote for the only deal which currently exists - the WA - as the Flint-Kinnock group of Lexiters have proposed

tobee · 03/09/2019 22:52

Good to hear that Lyra! Grin

MarshaBradyo · 03/09/2019 22:52

There’s some family resemblance there - Nick S

Piggywaspushed · 03/09/2019 22:53

I posted on the wrong thread but this is like a trainee teacher sending all the naughty kids out of the room at the same time. Never works. They just piss about in the corridor.

My ex MP rebelled. My current MP is Nadine Dorries. Silly baggage.

LyraParry · 03/09/2019 22:55

tobee, I thought I'd better update in case anyone was unable to concentrate on politics due to worrying about me Grin

Helpful run down of BJs options on newsnight too. None look too good for him.

tobee · 03/09/2019 22:55

Nick Soames's grandfather was a Liberal for a while of course, during the First World War.

howabout · 03/09/2019 22:56

On earlier point I don't think No Deal extension can be made permanently binding. EU, as determined by ECJ Art 50 case, cannot force a member to Leave OR Stay. Therefore any new Govt could Repeal UK Parliament consent for "extension" and Leave.

(Current extension can be ended by UK - TM framed it as Leaving with a Deal before Oct 31 - the "with a Deal" bit is UK rather than EU Law dependent afaik)

BigChocFrenzy · 03/09/2019 22:56

lyra I see where it's gone !

Westminstenders: The House Is On Fire
DarkAtEndOfUK · 03/09/2019 22:56

Soooo BCF - most of the people who voted for the deal at some point were backing the anti-No-Deal tonight? So the criticism that was hurled by some on the Tories side, about how anti-No-Dealers should vote for the deal, has no foundation?

howabout · 03/09/2019 22:57

For pp who asked SNP confirming in line with Labour position on GE.

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