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Brexit

Westminstenders: Game On?

975 replies

RedToothBrush · 29/08/2019 21:35

Johnson has had prorogation approved by the Queen.

There has been widespread outrage and horror both in the UK and in Europe. Johnson has ripped up the principle of Liberal democracy even if constitutionally what he has done is legal. In shredding convention and the 'gentlemans agreement' of understanding we teeter on the edge of democratic collapse.

Talk is tha Dominic Cummings is persuing a game theory principle of deliberately putting us on collision course with the EU. The idea being that they will blink first because the alternative of what will happen is just too awful for them to allow. The idea is to force others to make the moves whilst Johnson appears principled and strong, even without a proper strategy and plan for a deal.

And there is the rub. Despite all the Talk of no deal, at some point a deal MUST be made, regardless of whether its before or after 31st October. There is no sense of what that could be and how it could be done. And then there's the prospect of a US deal which suffers from the same lack of tangibility.

All there is, is how things look for a General Election. Nothing else.

Johnson is pitching for an election with no sense of what's needed for Brexit - including the legislation needed for no deal. Not to forget that Cummings, strategist that he is, apparently isn't here for the long haul, only being contracted until 31st October, when he goes for surgery he postponed to take on this job.

So what's the plan for Johnson Post Cummings? Or is he going to do even more 'winging it'.

Meanwhile there's an awful lot of moderate Tory MPs getting very nervous and already failing to stick to the Cummings script.

Johnson, until there is an election is going to firmly blow hot and cool, trying to play to the hopes and fears of leavers and remainers to keep them hanging on to hope and the notion that x or y will happen, when x and y can't possibly both happen because they are completely opposing strategies. Hope leads us blindly to stumble like fools into his trap and to win his reelection.

Next week looks very bumpy indeed. Chances are this thread won't make it past Saturday...

OP posts:
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Inniu · 30/08/2019 09:47

The UK already has a plan that would break the Brexit backstop deadlock
via The Irish Times
www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/the-uk-already-has-a-plan-that-would-break-the-brexit-backstop-deadlock-1.4001590

A proposal that Boris could put to the EU that might just be acceptable to the DUP. Effectively special status for NI but as a free port with other free ports existing in England. The English ones are already planned.
Free ports are not a new thing in international law. No change in the constitutional status of the free port as part of the UK

Motheroffourdragons · 30/08/2019 09:47

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Icantreachthepretzels · 30/08/2019 09:48

There were a far few anti-monarchy signs and snide comments at the Leeds protest last night. The Queen's popularity has taken a real nose dive in the past couple of days and people won't accept 'she's acting in line with protocol she can't doing anything else' because that only brings the question that DGR has been asking for a while now - what's the fucking point of her then?

Technically she should be referred to as Elizabeth the 1st and 2nd
Winston Churchill worked out this protocol back when she first took over. From this point on any monarch just takes the highest regnal number. So the next James will be James 8th - even though that skips over 3,4,5,6,7 in England, Wales and NI.

However as we may be in the last days of the monarchy and/or the union this may never be an issue.

TheNumberfaker · 30/08/2019 09:49

Apologies if this has already been answered, but somebody asked on the previous thread and I couldn’t see an answer afterwards.
If anti-no-deal legislation fails next week and VoNC passes, would the 15 days in which to form a new government override prorogation? Or would the whole VoNC collapse with the current session ending upon prorogation?

TemporaryPermanent · 30/08/2019 09:53

Hello DGR.

Can't post a cat pic as im on my phone. Perhaps lucky as my pretty little tabby shows his true soul in photos and looks like a psychotic killer, which he is. Unsettling.

I feel a bit liberated by the craziness of Her Majesty's Government, finally. 'Don't worry, it's legal' is not a reassuring approach to government. I no longer care if by protesting i am a cog in some Johnson/Cummings plan, or an elitist to be spat at by Garage. I will not stand by silently any more. This is my parliament and my country as much as it is theirs.

Quite clearly, Rees-Mogg who after all prevented Brexit, thought it was a mortal sin for a woman to have control of her own government. Whereas Boris fucking parliaament is just a venial sin.

woman19 · 30/08/2019 09:54

Fully agree with this
Yup.

prettybird · 30/08/2019 09:59

The judge is supposed to pronounce at 10 today. But both side have said that they will appeal, so it will inevitably go to the Supreme Court.

JustAnotherPoster00 · 30/08/2019 10:00

Ash Sakar just posted this hard to argue really

Westminstenders: Game On?
prettybird · 30/08/2019 10:01

Thenumberfaker

Fuck knows Confused

PerkingFaintly · 30/08/2019 10:02

If you want to stop something, stop it. If you believe in something, fight for it. If someone's arguments are trash, then trash them.

Another vote for this.

It's worth keeping an eye on the other guy's game to avoid the more egregious baits, but one shouldn't be paralysed into inaction.

DarlingNikita · 30/08/2019 10:09

Wenttoseainasieve, the No 10 cat does actually have his own Twitter account Grin As does the Foreign Office cat, Palmerston.

They make more sense than anyone else in the place, TBH.

RedToothBrush · 30/08/2019 10:10

Sebastian Payne @SebastianePayne
A former Whitehall colleague of Sajid Javid’s ex-media adviser gets in touch:

"This takes Cummings' paranoia to a new level. The idea that [the adviser] - a passionate Brexiteer, with a promising career ahead in government - would leak to the Gaukeward squad is pure fantasy.”

OP posts:
prettybird · 30/08/2019 10:17

Application to being forward the case has been dismissed by the Scottish Court.

Iirc, it was due to be held on 7 September.

prettybird · 30/08/2019 10:18

...so doesn't really change much of substance about the case itself, as that still hasn't been heard.

Might have been a few days later

CrunchyCarrot · 30/08/2019 10:21

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49521132

Scottish judge refuses to halt Parliament suspension plans. Sad

prettybird · 30/08/2019 10:22

Getting everything wrong Blush: (the way Sky News reported it was misleading). The interim interdict was denied. So that is more significant.

prettybird · 30/08/2019 10:26

Full hearing will now be heard next Tuesday rather than Friday, so that is a partial victory.

pamperramper · 30/08/2019 10:26

Why are people expecting problems with flights? I thought the EU had said they could continue for 9 months after No Deal? Was hoping to book one in the next few months.

DGRossetti · 30/08/2019 10:28

This takes Cummings' paranoia to a new level.

Of course the last days of the Reich were a paranoia fest ...

There's probably (already) a long running film franchise post Brexit where the remainer equivalent of "Munich" is carried out. That's a niche Daniel Craig reference, for y'all Grin.

LonelyTiredandLow · 30/08/2019 10:30

I had thought the HRT scare stories were because it has been noted they may be one of the first shortages? I am now wondering if I imagined that before we left for France...Hmm but it's one way to encourage people to stop voluntarily to swerve a news story post Brexit. Women and children first into the disaster, thank you!

I don't know why but since the discussion about erotica with MP's I am somewhat convinced JRM squeaks. I can only imagine high pitched (and yes, possibly the odd guttural German word) emanating.

A leaver on fb is now posting how we must "Back Boris" despite previously posting about Tory 'scum' on a regular basis. Ah how quickly they forget.

prettybird · 30/08/2019 10:32

Sounds like the Government's continued attempts to delay things as much as possible backfired Grin. When the judge said that the full hearing, which was due to be heard next Friday, would be brought forward to Tuesday or Wednesday, the Government lawyer stood up and said that it would be better on the Wednesday as he could not make Tuesday. At which point the judge said he would hear it on Tuesday Wink

pamperramper · 30/08/2019 10:35

How worried are people about petrol shortages? So many wouldn't be able to get to work / school?

Peregrina · 30/08/2019 10:37

Judge refuses to halt parliament suspension plans

Is the typical BBC headline, but in fact, read on, and it says that the case needs to be heard in full sooner rather than later.

I don't know much about Scots Law. Does this mean the prorogation could still be stopped?

At which point the judge said he would hear it on Tuesday
Nice!

prettybird · 30/08/2019 10:43

I have no idea of the merits of the case but yes, if they are requesting prorogation due the purpose of thwarting parliament having a say on Brexit (and No Deal) not be allowed (when the case was brought, it was purely hypothetical - which was why the Government tried to have it thrown out Hmm), if they win, then it could be stopped.

Peregrina · 30/08/2019 10:46

if they win, then it could be stopped.

I might sound cynical, but I will say my prayers then. Mind you, my prayers can just as easily get the answer No.