Westminstenders: Game On?

[RedToothBrush]

Johnson has had prorogation approved by the Queen.

There has been widespread outrage and horror both in the UK and in Europe. Johnson has ripped up the principle of Liberal democracy even if constitutionally what he has done is legal. In shredding convention and the 'gentlemans agreement' of understanding we teeter on the edge of democratic collapse.

Talk is tha Dominic Cummings is persuing a game theory principle of deliberately putting us on collision course with the EU. The idea being that they will blink first because the alternative of what will happen is just too awful for them to allow. The idea is to force others to make the moves whilst Johnson appears principled and strong, even without a proper strategy and plan for a deal.

And there is the rub. Despite all the Talk of no deal, at some point a deal MUST be made, regardless of whether its before or after 31st October. There is no sense of what that could be and how it could be done. And then there's the prospect of a US deal which suffers from the same lack of tangibility.

All there is, is how things look for a General Election. Nothing else.

Johnson is pitching for an election with no sense of what's needed for Brexit - including the legislation needed for no deal. Not to forget that Cummings, strategist that he is, apparently isn't here for the long haul, only being contracted until 31st October, when he goes for surgery he postponed to take on this job.

So what's the plan for Johnson Post Cummings? Or is he going to do even more 'winging it'.

Meanwhile there's an awful lot of moderate Tory MPs getting very nervous and already failing to stick to the Cummings script.

Johnson, until there is an election is going to firmly blow hot and cool, trying to play to the hopes and fears of leavers and remainers to keep them hanging on to hope and the notion that x or y will happen, when x and y can't possibly both happen because they are completely opposing strategies. Hope leads us blindly to stumble like fools into his trap and to win his reelection.

Next week looks very bumpy indeed. Chances are this thread won't make it past Saturday...

BCF - are we back to fierce agreement ?

Apparently Lord Turnbull is calling for an inquiry into what authority Dominic Cummings was given and why an armed officer was needed to escort someone from No. 10.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/aug/31/boris-johnson-must-launch-inquiry-dominic-cummings-reign-of-terror

Too little, too late. Although I would be curious to know what account the Met will give for that operational decision ? Not that we will ever know. The police know which side their bread is buttered. No one wants to be the copper that "lost" 20,000 new cops that never existed over a little spat like this. Meanwhile the scope for "accidents" involving police, guns and non-police remains as clear as ever.

I like it, DGR. How about the UK party?

If nothing else, the Electoral Commission would stop them - and rightly

Oh, now they find they can act

The "other side" have been using dirty tricks, but NOT fake Remain party names

• because as above, the Electoral Commission would prevent it.

The possibility of messing with party names was thought of many decades ago, hence the rules to prevent it

We need to realise which dirty tricks they have used, not fantasise about things they didn't do and that we can't do either

The best chance to beat the Tories is a GE after Corbyn has stepped down

As a matter of principle, I'd rather the Labour party chose the Labour leader, and the Tory party the Tory leader ...

I've annoyed myself by clicking onto leave friend's remainer friend's profile. He's posted a lot and had some typically selfish Leaver replies along the "I'm alright Jack" response where his friends have had companies go bust since the ref, had them move or have been made redundant. One reply was literally "I have faith in my abilities and the rest of the millions who want a non deal. Everything you say are subjective, so you have no idea what will happen. We voted out and that means out. My business will do just fine out of the EU so will millions of others we have had three year to prepare if you didn’t it’s your own fault. Get over it move on and onwards and upwards
Just to add it was a lot of the MP’s across parliament who have caused this not just Conservatives if you go off constituencies 2/3 voted to leave if the MP’s in them areas would do as the people asked, we would have been out by now."

He appears to breed falcons and hawks

DG You need to look at facts instead of emoting

SPADs are not MPs, very different protections and rules

The Met has egg on its face over that SPAD escorted out of No 10, because they look ridiculous

but totally different to an MP who has rights to enter the HoC

No Deal is a suicide mission. Everyone knows it now even if the rhetoric is being ramped up to defend it.

Let us just see....

Getting our borders back. Hmm we will not put a border up between ROI/EU and NI. check

We want our Sovereignty back. Hmm, why Prorogue Parliament so?

We want to make our own laws. Hmm. Still can, always could, nothing to stop it.

Control immigration. Hmm. That works both ways and will not stop non EU from entering with a visa, whilst our EU friends will be excluded.

I could go on but am weary of this shyte now sorry.

Just hankering after even ONE benefit of No Deal please. Anyone?

Of course the Labour party will choose the Labour leader

Unfortunately, they have chosen one whom the public won't vote for in sufficient numbers,
even with the most incompetent chaotic and dictatorial Tory govt ever.

The polls on Corbyn himself are consistent and abysmal, far beyond any sampling error

I have no idea how far the economy must crash after No Deal until Corbyn is seen by voters as an acceptable PM
Maybe it would take the NHS being sold off

Outsomnia Unfortunately half the country thinks we will "beat" the EU and / or be fine
They just keep saying they want to Leave and are not in Read Mode, or Think Mode

BCF nothing that happens after No Deal will ever be BECAUSE of No Deal in Leaver minds. JC is the bogeyman, not Brexit. It will continue like that - oh it might be bad but imagine how much worse it would be under Corbyn is literally a sentence my old Leave friend used every time we spoke. It's a reflex.

Just seen a Paul Lewis tweet saying the state pensions of UK pensions in EU will only be uprated for 3 years after Brexit and then subject to re-negotiation.

I have been warning that this could happen. After all why not? They don't uprate the pensions of people who have gone to Canada (and I think Australia and New Zealand), even when their stamp is paid up to entitle them to a full pension.

PMK with an article that scared me a lot this morning
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/eu_referendum_2016_/3681076-it-Cant-happen-here-State-Capture-is-easy?watched=1

The Tories DO have the power to ban anyone they want from their own conference.

This could include any Tory MPs who vote the wrong way in the few days that the HoC sits before the party conference
It also includes any Remainer campaigner

Tories 'running scared' as they bar anti-Brexit chief from party conference

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/tories-running-scared-bar-anti-19120614.amp?

Best For Britain chief executive Naomi Smith was told her application for the Conservative Party Conference had been denied

BigChocFrenzy

Sadly I have come to the conclusion that Leave with No Deal is a cult now.

I am sure you and me, and many others know how difficult it is to "de cult" those who are embroiled.

Anyway. Onwards and Upwards and let us hope for the best.

Yes I am fed up now.

Sadly I have come to the conclusion that Leave with No Deal is a cult now.

Now ?

It was the intention for a lot of Brexiteers before the referendum. Which is why they made such a bid deal of promising it wasn't.

Any news on Daniel Hannon ? How's his conscience these days ?

Dominic Cummings is a nihilist anarchist (based on his multiple blog posts over many years)
He is now in control of the government via our covefee Prime Minister
state capture

I wonder how much Trump would pay for Northern Ireland ?

DGRosetti

Leave was one thing, but this No Deal threat, and suspension of ANY operations in Westminster, (Prorogation), together with sacking SPADS and threats to MPs and etc. is another animal altogether.

The cultists support all this, they are brainwashed IMV.

Having prorogued parliament to maintain the conference season, has anyone thought how badly that is going to play out this year. Johnson has made a lot of enemies in a short space of time. It's oft said that voters don't like divided parties and conference is going to be a bear pit. Other parties are going to seem like honeymooners in contrast. That should put paid to the Boris bounce.

listeningquietly I've posted on your thread about the progress on Article 7 proceedings against Hungary,
which could lead to suspension of EU voting rights and financial penalties

it is a long process, because - contrary to Leaver beliefs - the EU Commission & member states avoid interfering in internal affairs of members except in very extreme cases

So they are giving Hungary (too) many chances to turn back

Two views:

a) There is method in the madness. BJ is doing x to provoke y so he can respond with z, etc.

b) Just chucking rocks at the greenhouse because he loves the sound of breaking glass.

@Worried I don't know, I actually think Leave voters who used to be Kippers/BxP will vote Tory now, especially if my fb leave lot are anything to go by. They were merrily calling all Tories vermin and scum before BoZo became leader

Personally I think Tories and BxP will make happy bedfellows in a coalition and that is why Farage has gone quiet - no need to fight the guys doing his job for him. Hold those cards close until needed for bartering. I think his attack on the monarchy was timed to convince the Queen how easy it is for him to stoke anti-royal sentiment.

I've looked at the Get Ready website. Which seems to think the only problem I need to think about is maybe if I go on holiday and even if I do, it'll be fiiiiine.