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Brexit

Westminstenders: Prorogation

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 11:10

Its come to this.

Boris Johnson is to ask the Queen for permission to suspend parliament.

There are several legal challenges in the system to prevent this from happening.

It is unlikely to be able to stopped and the Queen is unlikely to intervene either. To do so would expose the Monarchy directly to a political threat which could lead to the downfall of the Crown if the cards lined up. Johnson has deliberate set up the situations where if she does, he is on the 'side of the people' whilst she is on the 'side of the establishment'. If she does nothing, she might be exposed still but none action, can be spun as political neutrality.

As David Allen Green points out:
^David Allen Green @davidallengreen
This is now the realm of pure politics

No court is likely to intervene - and it is not obvious what remedy a court could even grant so as to satisfactorily resolve the matter

"Not justiciable" as judges sometimes say

As we have seen so far, the opposition have been completely outclassed when it comes to 'pure politics' partly because of tribalism, partly because they lacked the capacity to understand and imagine how bad this could get - they never thought Johnson would go this far (massive tactical mistake) and partly because they so far do not understand whats driving this and have not produced and alternative narrative and explaination to counter those social and political fractures. Indeed everything they are doing is only serving to reinforce and widen those rifts and their complete lack of self awareness has been to blame. Johnson not only sees these fractures, he understands them, knows how to exploit them and most importantly is willing to do anything to retain power.

Authoritarians are always driven by this lust for power and are won't stop for anything. Thats why they are so dangerous and why checks and balances were put into the system. The trouble is the opposition didn't read the signs and are flapping in the wind now its reached the point where they suddenly realise its too far gone to be able to do much. The runaway train is firmly off the rails.

This all comes a day after the opposition apparently have agree a strategy to oppose No Deal. Which seems to include a VoNC. Remember this will always require Tory Rebels as even working together the Opposition haven't got the numbers - especially considering there are a few Labour Brexiteers.

This is being framed as a coalition of anti-democrats (which is something of a contradiction on several levels) by the government and the Brexit Party.

They have signed a pledge to set up an alternative parliament if government does prorogue parliament. This is full on civil war era stuff aka as a full blown constitutional crisis. Its actively into dangerous terrority. And as such, we very much into talking about the very real possibility of civil unrest. This is no longer something that can be considered hyperbole.

The timetable of this would see parliament prorogued just a few days into September (next week), closed to prepare for a new Queen's Speech and returning around the 17th October remembering the crucial final EU sumit on the 17th October. A VoNC doesn't necessarily mean the government will go though. There is no legal requirement to force the government to stand down. We may yet end up with a situation of two governments claiming legitmacy at the same time in late October. Prime Ministers Corbyn and Johnson.

A GE might eventually be the result of such a constitutional crisis but we would be way past 31st October before that happens.

Would we end up with an extension in such circumstances? Well the Prime Minister has to ask for one formally from the EU and the EU have to agree to one.

The problem being, who do the EU recognise as our PM?

We also have things coming into legal effect on the 1st November which would otherwise need revoking by parliament.

Which Parliament?

Things are going to get very very messy indeed.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
18
RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 13:16

Or should I say.

English way.

OP posts:
DGRossetti · 28/08/2019 13:17

there was nothing that Johnathon Bartley said that suggested that he was encouraging illegal protests,

"legal" is only what the government of the day say it is.

LouiseCollins28 · 28/08/2019 13:17

Loving your PMK work there by the way prettybird Gorgeous cats and I love the “multi-storey cat park” Grin

Hazardtired · 28/08/2019 13:19

Is having Prince Andrew splashed across the front pages with a scandal on the day Johnson annouces all this convenient? Putting the queen under pressure?

I am officially suspicious of most things.

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 13:19

louise
As someone who voted for sovereignty and taking back control are you ok with an unelected PM ending uk parliamentary sovereignty because...well, because he can....

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 13:21

Off to to re check the ohfucksacks ......

DGRossetti · 28/08/2019 13:21

Is having Prince Andrew splashed across the front pages with a scandal on the day Johnson annouces all this convenient? Putting the queen under pressure?

Oh, Boris, isn't it terrible what the papers are saying about Andrew ?

Well, Ma'am, if you'd just sign here, we can make it all go away ...

prettybird · 28/08/2019 13:21

This pair of cats are weird Louise Smile

We have developing a series of pictures of Pollokshields Pussycats in Peculiar Places Grin

We often look at them sitting/lying somewhere and ask, "Why? Just why?" Confused

Motheroffourdragons · 28/08/2019 13:24

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on behalf of the poster.

Myriade · 28/08/2019 13:25

PMK

wigglybeezer · 28/08/2019 13:25

Yup, it's Roundheads versus Cavaliers again, let's hope enough Tories decide they're actually Roundheads.

Hazardtired · 28/08/2019 13:27

dg I was aiming for more paranoid then that. Epstein has links to trump/farage, farage and co have been planning this for years....

Farage: befriend Prince Andrew
Epstein: ok.

I might be falling down rabbit holes...

Myriade · 28/08/2019 13:28

here was no civil war in 1930s Germany.

No. We look to be doing things in a rather more British fashion...

Can someone/RTB explain to a non brit what is that britsh way?

Puppylucky · 28/08/2019 13:29

PP asked where the Punk generation are in all of this. Sadly I think a lot of them are on the side of Farrage and Johnson - a No Deal Brexit is absolutely the kind of Nihilistic act that Punk celebrated whilst a pro Britain / anti European stance is at the heart of a lot of the Punk culture.

Myriade · 28/08/2019 13:30

And re the prorogation.

there is NO elections coming so why, why 'asking' (or is it demanding?) prorogation?

Time to stop getting fooled around!

DGRossetti · 28/08/2019 13:30

here was no civil war in 1930s Germany.... No. We look to be doing things in a rather more British fashion...

As someone noted on another thread, the last civil war in the UK ended in 1998.

DGRossetti · 28/08/2019 13:31

And yet the punks of the 70s almost defined anti-racism Sad

ARoomWithoutADoor · 28/08/2019 13:31

FFS: 5 WEEKS??!!!

LouiseCollins28 · 28/08/2019 13:33

I guess I was trying clumsily to make 2 points at the same time. One that it was Bartley (who’s work and who’s ramblings I have followed for years btw) who called people out onto the streets and not the arch protestor Jeremy Corbyn.

Secondly, he accused the PM of acting like a dictator if my memory of his interview is right? Pretty inflammatory IMO.if, as a consequence, subsequent protests turn out to be “not peaceful”, he’s the person who put the call out there.

To respond to Hoooo, honestly, no I’m not, I think this is pretty appalling. I think Parliament should be sitting for as long as possible between now and 31st of October. However, the purpose of that sitting IMO must be to enable the passage of legislation to facilitate an orderly Brexit.

Since parliament have yet to even “indicate” what sort of deal it will accept, and opposition MPs are already organising extra-Parliamentary activity designed to stop Brexit, what purpose would more Parliamentary time fulfil? I still think they should have it, absolutely, but whats the point?

FractalChaos · 28/08/2019 13:33

What are the european papers saying?

Hoooo · 28/08/2019 13:35

You still think an orderly brexit is possible!??

prettybird · 28/08/2019 13:36

For the last 20+ years, I have half joked that the way that the UK Parliamentary "democracy" worked, with the way that the Government could over-ride what the other parties said, once an election is won, then we should save money by sending all the other MPs home and just leaving the Government to get on with it Hmm

I never thought they'd actually do it Shock

....let alone when it is a minority Government (which it is, as the DUP is a different party not in formal coalition with them). Angry

Icantreachthepretzels · 28/08/2019 13:36

does anyone know the link to email the prime minister? as I recall from contacting our Theresa you can't just send a normal email. I'd quite like to personally tell bojo he's a fat cunt with stupid hair... I mean I won't say that - I'll pretty it up with words like 'despot' and 'outrage to democracy'. But read between the lines and it will be clear the actual message is 'fat cunt with stupid hair'.

I just emailed my odious toad of a tory mp - I told him specifically I didn't want to hear back because he was no use and already heard all his lies over the past 3 years, I just wanted to make sure he couldn't claim he'd only had emails and letters in support of prorogation.

ListeningQuietly · 28/08/2019 13:38

I wish I did not give a .... but I do

Westminstenders: Prorogation
MitziK · 28/08/2019 13:39

I'll give myself concussion if I keep on face-palming.

So I've decided to stop and make sure my documents are all up to date with and safe - I have a feeling my full birth certificate, proving that I am the child of a Scot, might prove handy in the future.

I'll definitely be avoiding Central London for a while, too.

Just wish I'd had enough money to build some stocks up. And I still haven't heard from the medicines delivery company about my next supply of Humira.

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