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Brexit

Westminstenders: Prorogation

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 11:10

Its come to this.

Boris Johnson is to ask the Queen for permission to suspend parliament.

There are several legal challenges in the system to prevent this from happening.

It is unlikely to be able to stopped and the Queen is unlikely to intervene either. To do so would expose the Monarchy directly to a political threat which could lead to the downfall of the Crown if the cards lined up. Johnson has deliberate set up the situations where if she does, he is on the 'side of the people' whilst she is on the 'side of the establishment'. If she does nothing, she might be exposed still but none action, can be spun as political neutrality.

As David Allen Green points out:
^David Allen Green @davidallengreen
This is now the realm of pure politics

No court is likely to intervene - and it is not obvious what remedy a court could even grant so as to satisfactorily resolve the matter

"Not justiciable" as judges sometimes say

As we have seen so far, the opposition have been completely outclassed when it comes to 'pure politics' partly because of tribalism, partly because they lacked the capacity to understand and imagine how bad this could get - they never thought Johnson would go this far (massive tactical mistake) and partly because they so far do not understand whats driving this and have not produced and alternative narrative and explaination to counter those social and political fractures. Indeed everything they are doing is only serving to reinforce and widen those rifts and their complete lack of self awareness has been to blame. Johnson not only sees these fractures, he understands them, knows how to exploit them and most importantly is willing to do anything to retain power.

Authoritarians are always driven by this lust for power and are won't stop for anything. Thats why they are so dangerous and why checks and balances were put into the system. The trouble is the opposition didn't read the signs and are flapping in the wind now its reached the point where they suddenly realise its too far gone to be able to do much. The runaway train is firmly off the rails.

This all comes a day after the opposition apparently have agree a strategy to oppose No Deal. Which seems to include a VoNC. Remember this will always require Tory Rebels as even working together the Opposition haven't got the numbers - especially considering there are a few Labour Brexiteers.

This is being framed as a coalition of anti-democrats (which is something of a contradiction on several levels) by the government and the Brexit Party.

They have signed a pledge to set up an alternative parliament if government does prorogue parliament. This is full on civil war era stuff aka as a full blown constitutional crisis. Its actively into dangerous terrority. And as such, we very much into talking about the very real possibility of civil unrest. This is no longer something that can be considered hyperbole.

The timetable of this would see parliament prorogued just a few days into September (next week), closed to prepare for a new Queen's Speech and returning around the 17th October remembering the crucial final EU sumit on the 17th October. A VoNC doesn't necessarily mean the government will go though. There is no legal requirement to force the government to stand down. We may yet end up with a situation of two governments claiming legitmacy at the same time in late October. Prime Ministers Corbyn and Johnson.

A GE might eventually be the result of such a constitutional crisis but we would be way past 31st October before that happens.

Would we end up with an extension in such circumstances? Well the Prime Minister has to ask for one formally from the EU and the EU have to agree to one.

The problem being, who do the EU recognise as our PM?

We also have things coming into legal effect on the 1st November which would otherwise need revoking by parliament.

Which Parliament?

Things are going to get very very messy indeed.

OP posts:
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DarkAtEndOfUK · 29/08/2019 20:40

I’m never sure on bias at the BBC if that means left/ right bias. But it certainly suffers from denialism or something that stops it reporting on too much civil dissatisfaction, and it also suffers from recycled press releases - is being told what to print. It’s also hostage to the licence fee.

DarkAtEndOfUK · 29/08/2019 20:42

I.e. being told, not is. Autocorrect. Another example of authorities ganging up on us. Smile

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 29/08/2019 20:42

I'm beyond help Hazardtired truly beyond.

But confessing made me feel betterGrin

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:43

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

woman19 · 29/08/2019 20:43

That's good about Fields, Swedish
Clever Cummings probably is too young to remember how trades unions get things done.(and too arrogant to learn about it independently) Fortunately. Wink
Union Reps Threaten Immediate Direct Action Over No-Deal Brexit Suspension Of Parliament Across the labour movement, the mood is rising

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/leading-union-figures-threaten-direct-action-over-no-deal-brexit-suspension-of-parliament_uk_5d67c42ce4b01fcc690ff4c3?utm_hp_ref=uk-politics

Putin has it as well
I heard that Putin plays for the other team.

tobee · 29/08/2019 20:43

If we No Deal plenty of people will be in for a serious shock in thinking all the arguing will be over on top of everything else. I know it's spread been said on these boards many, many times

ContinuityError · 29/08/2019 20:45

there isn't a specific type or race there has to be that 'something'

So, catherine, tell me when you first realised that you were attracted to sociopaths and psychopaths?

I’m listening ...

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SwedishEdith · 29/08/2019 20:48

I had a very difficult relationship with my father so I blame it on that.

I'm glad you said that as that was my instant assumption. 😮 Carrie Symonds has a difficult relationship with her father as well, allegedly.

Putin is gay? Yes, of course, why have I missed that?

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 29/08/2019 20:49

@IrenetheQuaint @ContinuityError

Oh come on I was/am not the only one. There used be loads of #Boris is hot remarks on MN. Has everyone got amnesia? Posters used to gush over him.

He has a something. You know it's not good for you but it's there.

ContinuityError · 29/08/2019 20:49

Re: Hurricane Dorian
Will the Donald sue God?

Isn’t the Donald the self proclaimed second coming of God? So he’d have to sue himself?

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 29/08/2019 20:50

Flouncy Grin

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:51

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ContinuityError · 29/08/2019 20:53

He has a something. You know it's not good for you but it's there.

Euuggghhh - no thanks. There really is no barge pole long enough.

woman19 · 29/08/2019 20:54

Easy to miss Swedish

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QueenOfThorns · 29/08/2019 20:57

But confessing made me feel better

Glad to hear it, but unfortunately it has traumatised everyone else on this thread!

tobee · 29/08/2019 20:58

New thread soon! Shock

Wonder which thread filled up the fastest and what was happening? Day after ref vote?

SwedishEdith · 29/08/2019 21:00

I know, it was there in plain sight!

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 21:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ContinuityError · 29/08/2019 21:01

flouncyfanny my DH has been reading a book about sociopaths and is now slightly (well more than slightly) worried that he’s a sociopath.

Don’t know why he’s worried - Ve known it for years Smile

pumkinspicetime · 29/08/2019 21:06

I quite like BJ too in the beginning.
Hangs head in shame.
I have a thing for posh English men.
I think because I have internalized class shame and obviously issues with being Scottish.
Anyway my dh is only lower middle class background so I think I am working successfully on this issue.

mrslaughan · 29/08/2019 21:07

@CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook
I think it must be a British thing..... being brought up in NZ I have never understood it - thought he was a slimy twat as mayor, and my opinion hasn't improved.
I remember a number of conversations with individuals with similar background as me where we tried to unpick what it was, that anybody saw in him......