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Brexit

Westminstenders: Prorogation

999 replies

RedToothBrush · 28/08/2019 11:10

Its come to this.

Boris Johnson is to ask the Queen for permission to suspend parliament.

There are several legal challenges in the system to prevent this from happening.

It is unlikely to be able to stopped and the Queen is unlikely to intervene either. To do so would expose the Monarchy directly to a political threat which could lead to the downfall of the Crown if the cards lined up. Johnson has deliberate set up the situations where if she does, he is on the 'side of the people' whilst she is on the 'side of the establishment'. If she does nothing, she might be exposed still but none action, can be spun as political neutrality.

As David Allen Green points out:
^David Allen Green @davidallengreen
This is now the realm of pure politics

No court is likely to intervene - and it is not obvious what remedy a court could even grant so as to satisfactorily resolve the matter

"Not justiciable" as judges sometimes say

As we have seen so far, the opposition have been completely outclassed when it comes to 'pure politics' partly because of tribalism, partly because they lacked the capacity to understand and imagine how bad this could get - they never thought Johnson would go this far (massive tactical mistake) and partly because they so far do not understand whats driving this and have not produced and alternative narrative and explaination to counter those social and political fractures. Indeed everything they are doing is only serving to reinforce and widen those rifts and their complete lack of self awareness has been to blame. Johnson not only sees these fractures, he understands them, knows how to exploit them and most importantly is willing to do anything to retain power.

Authoritarians are always driven by this lust for power and are won't stop for anything. Thats why they are so dangerous and why checks and balances were put into the system. The trouble is the opposition didn't read the signs and are flapping in the wind now its reached the point where they suddenly realise its too far gone to be able to do much. The runaway train is firmly off the rails.

This all comes a day after the opposition apparently have agree a strategy to oppose No Deal. Which seems to include a VoNC. Remember this will always require Tory Rebels as even working together the Opposition haven't got the numbers - especially considering there are a few Labour Brexiteers.

This is being framed as a coalition of anti-democrats (which is something of a contradiction on several levels) by the government and the Brexit Party.

They have signed a pledge to set up an alternative parliament if government does prorogue parliament. This is full on civil war era stuff aka as a full blown constitutional crisis. Its actively into dangerous terrority. And as such, we very much into talking about the very real possibility of civil unrest. This is no longer something that can be considered hyperbole.

The timetable of this would see parliament prorogued just a few days into September (next week), closed to prepare for a new Queen's Speech and returning around the 17th October remembering the crucial final EU sumit on the 17th October. A VoNC doesn't necessarily mean the government will go though. There is no legal requirement to force the government to stand down. We may yet end up with a situation of two governments claiming legitmacy at the same time in late October. Prime Ministers Corbyn and Johnson.

A GE might eventually be the result of such a constitutional crisis but we would be way past 31st October before that happens.

Would we end up with an extension in such circumstances? Well the Prime Minister has to ask for one formally from the EU and the EU have to agree to one.

The problem being, who do the EU recognise as our PM?

We also have things coming into legal effect on the 1st November which would otherwise need revoking by parliament.

Which Parliament?

Things are going to get very very messy indeed.

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Thread gallery
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OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/08/2019 20:07

For any one in any doubt who is reading this, the issues with last years flu jab were down to entirely different reasons and were with one particular variety.

Peregrina · 29/08/2019 20:10

BlowJob himself might not really know how many children he has. No doubt he will be able to have a good guess.

As to the reasons for last year's flu vaccine not being available - it won't matter, the Leavers only need the slightest excuse.

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:10

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

SwedishEdith · 29/08/2019 20:12

Paul Waugh
@paulwaugh
·
8m
EXC: Chancellor's media adviser has just been escorted out of Downing St after a meeting with Dominic Cummings. It appears she had been fired.

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:14

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

jasjas1973 · 29/08/2019 20:17

I talked to a brexitier yesterday, any problems going forward are remainers fault as we would have had a fantastic deal had we all pulled together in 2016.
He also said that if he had a gun and a remainer argued with him, he would shoot them... from a so called colleague at work.

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:19

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

OhYouBadBadKitten · 29/08/2019 20:20

interesting other flu jab report. So in the States they are expecting their full amount.. www.medicaleconomics.com/news/some-flu-shot-shipments-will-be-delayed

DarkAtEndOfUK · 29/08/2019 20:21

I keep hearing Remainers on the Radio who just want to leave now. They are fed up with the arguing!

I wondered about that. What radio station, was it a BBC national? Could it possibly be part of a deliberate PR/ nudge theory (I haven’t forgotten that even if it did go quiet) attempt to make people follow that example? The instant protests yesterday do not entirely support the idea that remainders just want it over with.

Trouble is in a state run by propaganda you can’t trust anything. I’ve asked people a few times, how would we know if we were living in North Korea.

flouncyfanny · 29/08/2019 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

merrymouse · 29/08/2019 20:23

flouncy, I don't know how many women he has slept with, but here is an account of all the lies he has told about the children he has fathered.

www.mamamia.com.au/boris-johnson-children/

prettybird · 29/08/2019 20:23

He also said that if he had a gun and a remainer argued with him, he would shoot them...

ShockShockShock

RedToothBrush · 29/08/2019 20:24

If Richard Harrington votes to block no deal, doesn't that mean the government no longer has a technical majority is now relying on lent support from Labour Brexiteers?

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Grinchly · 29/08/2019 20:24

Anyone else think the BBC running with the migrants on speedboats story this morning, and Patel's visit to French oppo today is all part of the strategy? Sad

Peregrina · 29/08/2019 20:25

any problems going forward are remainers fault as we would have had a fantastic deal had we all pulled together in 2016.

Ask him if he thinks Rees-Mogg is a Remainer.

MerdedeBrexit · 29/08/2019 20:26

DarkAtEndOfUK - thank you so much for making me laugh aloud when I am currently in utter despair at the end of the civilised, democratic, world being nigh.
I cannot get over the outrageous BBC bias these past few years - as far as I'm concerned, the Toady prog on R4 single-handedly allowed Farage's views to become mainstream and that is why UKIP won the referendum. As I read somewhere today, so-called "balance" by newscasters shouldn't be at the expense of facts.

CatherineOfAragonsPrayerBook · 29/08/2019 20:26

merrymouse you assume that very many females wanted to mate with...erm, that?

I'll admit I thought he was seriously hot when he first ran for mayor. Very hot. He had a....something. I can certainly see the attraction. It's returned recently as his confidence as PM is growing. But then strangely, I am always attracted to very alpha men, there isn't a specific type or race there has to be that 'something'. Putin has it as well. Strangely I didn't see it in Obama and definately not Bush or Cameron or any other British prime minsterial candidates. David Blunkett had a charisma and 'thing' about him. I met him in person when I was in my late teens.

I had a very difficult relationship with my father so I blame it on that.

RedToothBrush · 29/08/2019 20:26

Henry Mance @henrymance
Chancellor doesn’t need a media adviser if the prime minister is going to nick all his big announcements
😉

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Hazardtired · 29/08/2019 20:29

Cummings is coming
Cummings is here, fire fire fire
He is chief wanker.

Sconio123 · 29/08/2019 20:30

Just leaving this here.....

m.youtube.com/watch?v=aVpSzYiRamY&feature=share

RedToothBrush · 29/08/2019 20:32

Now here's something that might raise a smile for some of you at least
(paging @OhYouBadBadKitten)

Grant Stern @grantstern
Hurricane Dorian is now projected to grow into a Cat. 4 storm.

One of the most accurate storm predictions, the European Model expects a track that would strike a full frontal blow on Trump's Mar-a-Lago Club in Palm Beach, Florida.

#ThursdayThoughts

Unfortunately its bad for everyone else in the area too.

If #HurricaneDorian follows this path, it would devastate Florida's beaches, many of which are nourished by dredging.

And Trump will probably have some kind of insurance scam...

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SwedishEdith · 29/08/2019 20:32

If Richard Harrington votes to block no deal, doesn't that mean the government no longer has a technical majority is now relying on lent support from Labour Brexiteers?

I know he's Ind rather than Lab now but Frank Field has said he'd vote to bring the Govt down.

Hazardtired · 29/08/2019 20:33

I feel we need to intervene somehow to help you but I can't think how catherine

IrenetheQuaint · 29/08/2019 20:40

"I'll admit I thought he was seriously hot when he first ran for mayor. Very hot. He had a....something. I can certainly see the attraction. It's returned recently as his confidence as PM is growing. But then strangely, I am always attracted to very alpha men, there isn't a specific type or race there has to be that 'something'. Putin has it as well."

RedToothBrush · 29/08/2019 20:40

Damian Green @DamianGreen
Many people have contacted me about the prorogation of Parliament. I would urge everyone to look at the facts. The number of days Parliament is not sitting is only six more than was planned. Most importantly, Parliament is back well before October 31st. (1/5)

So there is time to ratify a deal if one can be reached by the time of the EU Council in mid-October. This remains my preferred option, rather than a No Deal Brexit whose potential effects I have warned against many times. (2/5)

If the Leader of the Opposition wants to put down a vote of no confidence in the Government he can do so next week when Parliament returns. This is all normal Parliamentary democracy, which shows that the talk of coups and dictatorship is massively overblown. (3/5)

I campaigned for Remain in the Referendum but I respect the result, and so voted for the deal which would have allowed us to leave in the best way possible. I support the Government’s efforts to find a new deal which will pass the House of Commons. (4/5)

I accept the argument that any further delay to Brexit beyond October 31st would further damage the reputation of Parliament. I would of course vote against any No Confidence motion in the Government. (5/5)

Rowena @rowena_kay
"We only shut down parliament a little bit for our own political ends and not totally" is not the winning argument Cummings has briefed it as.

I'm sure they will notice that if Corbyn ever does it.

David Allen Green @davidallengreen
They are rattled

They were not supposed to still be defending this over a day later

This is not going to plan

Rowena @rowena_kay
It's not that he's supporting it, it's that its Day Two and the fire is growing not burning oit.

Hmmm.... wasn't that the plan?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/29/boris-johnson-charles-i-king?CMP=share_btn_tw
Why comparisons between Boris Johnson and Charles I aren’t just lazy rhetoric

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