Any more Leave supporters on MN?

[SacrebleuLondres]

I've not been on here for a while.

I'm seeing only anti Brexit threads on here.

Any Leave voters out there?

What do we have to look forward to when we Brexit?

Why are people worried about freedom of movement? I'm genuinely interested.

On the BBC website now:

"A senior executive at a major food retailer has told the BBC it is considering introducing rationing.
It will prevent firms that have not made their own no-deal Brexit plan from using food retailers as wholesalers.
But he said he did not envisage that the limits would affect normal retail customers.
"One potential problem is that businesses who are struggling with their supply chains effectively use ours," he said.
"We would need to limit the amount restaurants or convenience stores, for example, that are short of stock could buy," said the executive, who spoke to the BBC on condition of anonymity.
Not the first time
"We wouldn't use the word rationing but that is effectively what it is. Limiting the volumes small businesses can purchase so that our retail customers get a chance to get what they need.""

Hope you are all fucking proud of yourselves.

RobustF,
1 million people got settled status in the last 4.5 months.
There are 10 weeks (2.5m) to process the other 2.5 million.
What could possibly go wrong?

I guess it's one way to create a million new admin roles .

RobustFlange -

FOM has reduced the likelihood of a company taking on school leavers to train when they can employ fully trained personal at a much lower rate than they would need to pay a UK citizen with little or no need to train them.
FOM has given companies like Sports Direct and Amazon free rain to employ people at minimum wage in their warehouses and have certainly in the past, advertised exclusively in Eastern Europe for workers thus vastly increasing their ability to profit from our internet shopping obsession and majorly impacting on our local high streets.

FOM has contributed to changes the property market in parts of the country with warehouse/factories or agricultural work with an increase for multi occupancy properties. A local person couldn't afford to rent a home for their family and work in one of the warehouses but FOM makes it viable for workers from other countries with a lower cost of living living in a room in a house whilst sending their wage home to care for their family.
FOM gives the employer the ability to employ a much better educated person in a role which would normally be occupied by a school leaver or a local with few qualifications.
Finally I don't like FOM because it is scudded towards white Christian immigration where we should be welcoming people from all over the world but only for the professions and jobs we really need additional workers for.

kids are living in shipping containers, but the government have spare cash to give to councils to prepare for no-deal Brexit. Seems reasonable.

Well said. What a complete utter total embarrassment this whole mess is. The money wasted is an utter disgrace.

How many of us would still be in our own jobs if we made the kind of fuck up BoJo and co does

Did you get that from the DM website?

Down here in Cornwall, FOM hasn't really affected us, few EU citizens come here... mainly agris and tourism jobs, yet wages are super low, companies don't take on young people to train and in non tourist areas of Devon and Cornwall, we've a housing crisis.

I'm not saying none of the probs you list don't exist but to put them all down to FOM is just wrong, we had these issues back in the 80s and 90s too, long before FoM.

Employers are just not prepared to invest in a workforce for several years anymore, in my industry (IT & Telecoms) we now employ one fully trained tech support engineer with all the certifications and 20 semi-skilled technicians who phone him up when they are stuck, they call it "smart hands"
Kit is just so much more reliable, can be configured remotely and network equipment is now being designed that will autoconfigure from the cloud, no on-site skill required or skilled mtce teams.

The work place has changed dramatically across many industries.

In healthcare, despite the vote being 3.5 years ago, we've done jack to encourage UK school leavers to go into healthcare.... why is that?

I have lived in Peterborough Jasjas and worked around the Fens so have a good knowledge of the types of areas I'm talking about.
My Bil sold up in a nice part of town because of the amount of property rented out as multiple occupancy and how it had completely changed the neighbourhood.
I'm not putting them all down to FOM but it certainly hasn't helped.

Sure FOM has its disadvantages but in an aging population, we need low & skilled workers.

Mainland europe is nearby, they want to come here and we need them, they can easily return if they want and can assimilate easily.

The alternative is we take workers from the developing world, which imho is immoral.

The alternative is we take workers from the developing world, which imho is immoral.

Particularly in the case of health care workers.

@doubletrouble99 - you've made some really good points, I can't argue with most of what you have said.

However, I do feel it would be a tad naive to think that once FOM is curbed, that employers will increase wages with no impact on consumers. Prices will go up, companies that can afford to will move to where there is cheap labour, or they will go bust.

Low wages and resulting immigration is down to market forces and people wanting cheaper stuff.

It will be interesting (in a masochistic way) to see how this drama unfolds.

I'm not saying we shouldn't have workers from the EU but that we should have a system that includes people from where ever they come. I also don't agree with taking health care workers from the developing world or from eastern Europe for that matter where they are equally needed. I think it's very wrong of us to rely on ready trained staff from other countries where that country has paid for that training.
We really do need to rethink our healthcare training in this country, the lack of training/university places for Drs in this country is very poor. I also don't agree with the imposition of bursaries for nurses. Or the idea that every nurse needs to have a degree which further depletes the pool of possible candidates. Compassion, a caring nature and a hard worker should come way above educational qualifications in my book.

UK needs to double health care spaces tomorrow in order to have enough home-trained HCPs in 10 yrs time.

What shall UK do in meantime to have enough HCPs, any suggestions?

Robust - I don't think warehouses can move. Employers are having to increase wages as fewer EU workers are coming. We may have to curtail our passion for buying cheap sports wear! I for one think we should be buying fewer things. I know I certainly buy much more than I used to because it's so easy to just click and have it sent on prime or whatever. So I think a win win for my pocket and the environment!
There is a system for seasonal workers that was used in the past. They have been using it this year in Scotland but the farmers say they need an increase in the quota to make the fruit picking viable.

Nursing degree apprenticeships will help, but they're like hen's teeth at the moment. Looking at 5-10 years before they make an impact on the labour market.

Double - interested in your thoughts on Northern Ireland

My thoughts on NI is that bellini and everyone that thinks her suggestion is the great solution that she continually pushes (and I respect that) should bombard Arlene Foster and her DUP with why it should work.

What shall UK do in meantime to have enough HCPs, any suggestions?

You can roll your own sleeves up and wipe a few arses can't you? If you care so much.

Or the idea that every nurse needs to have a degree which further depletes the pool of possible candidates. Compassion, a caring nature and a hard worker should come way above educational qualifications in my book

Of course one would hope nurses have a caring nature but the role of a nurse is way above that of Florence Nightingale, the technical expertise, the drugs to be administered, requires nurses to be trained to a high level, a degree gives that, bare in mind much training is done on placement.

Other countries manage to train enough degree trained nurses, why can't we? why should the UK downgrade its nurse professionals?

Its not just nurses though, its physios, occupational therapists, radiographers... all are in short supply and all have to pay 9250 per year x 3 to train plus fund their own placement costs and at the end of it, a low salary.

All the FOM problems are UK gov made, not EU made. It suits UK gov to allow it so it continues.

Also interested to know if it factored in your decision making when you chose to vote leave

As 97.5% of UK population lives on UK mainland it is likely that Northern Ireland was not considered when they voted in 2016.

QT episode on 4 April 2019 the no deal supporter (Charles Morton) on the panel stated that no deal would be a much bigger problem for Ireland than UK. The Irish MEP, Maisaid Guiness (think that was her name) did not dispute that statement.

Mystery - not sure I understand your second point about QT. My curiosity is around Northern Ireland as it is fairly clear that the conundrum that it presents is what has proved the most difficult when trying to get agreement in the House. I am curious also to see if people think there is a solution- even if they didn't think about it in 2016 what do they think now.

I know one individual (not personally) whose view was that he didn't think about NI at the time of voting and didn't really care if it stayed part of the union as a result of Brexit. He is from mainland UK. Wondering how common a view this is.

whose view was that he didn't think about NI at the time of voting and didn't really care if it stayed part of the union as a result of Brexit. He is from mainland UK

Sounds similar to myself. If NI rejoins ROI that is okay with me as ROI is EU member and NI majority vote was to remain in the EU.

If NI is a special economic zone for the purposes of the border that is okay with me too.

Mystery- thanks. That is interesting. I have a feeling that might be a common view. Did you have or do you have any thoughts on the impact it is likely to have on peace in NI?

My thoughts on NI are this. The backstop thing didn't need to happen and is only a construct of the EU's insistence that we don't negotiate a trade deal at the same time as the withdrawal agreement. Had we known we were getting a free trade deal which is/was more than likely on the cards none of this would be a problem.
What I would like to see now is some sensible discussions about trade, perhaps specifically in the areas that would adversely affect NI and Ireland such as, beef, milk and live animals for instance. I'm no expert but there are particular industries with short dated products that could be adversely affected so I think they should talk about them and sort that part out now. Would also help at Dover.